View Full Version : How Does Everybody Feel About The Sks As A Mbr?
WICKED WILLIE
10-31-2002, 09:26
i like the idea,
if there were just some good aftermarket sights for them, the stock sights suck in daylight, can you imagin trying to hit a man sized target @ night with them stock sights?
PRO'S
cheap weapon just about everybody can get their hands on one.
cheap ammo just about everyone can afford to practice with one a few times a week atleast.
good solid design, "battle tested"
cleaning kit stores in the weapon, as all battle rifles should.
you can get ammo in fmj-hp-sp.
can double as a hunting rifle if need be with sp-ammo.
it's a 30cal round, as a versital rifles ammo shold be "IMO"
CON'S
no good aftermarket sights or scope mounts.
what do ya'll think of the SKS's as a MBR? :ar15:
I finally ordered one of the AIM Albanian $125 two day sale rifles. I'll be more prepared to discuss these when it arrives. Waiting for the UPS truck is fun.
The SKS is NOT a MBR since it fires that intermediate round. It just doesn't have the effective range.
You need something like a 7.62x54R instead of the 7.62x39.
Dennis Jenkins
Originally posted by WICKED WILLIE
i like the idea,
if there were just some good aftermarket sights for them, the stock sights suck in daylight, can you imagin trying to hit a man sized target @ night with them stock sights?
PRO'S
cheap weapon just about everybody can get their hands on one.
cheap ammo just about everyone can afford to practice with one a few times a week atleast.
good solid design, "battle tested"
cleaning kit stores in the weapon, as all battle rifles should.
you can get ammo in fmj-hp-sp.
can double as a hunting rifle if need be with sp-ammo.
it's a 30cal round, as a versital rifles ammo shold be "IMO"
CON'S
no good aftermarket sights or scope mounts.
what do ya'll think of the SKS's as a MBR? :ar15:
WICKED WILLIE
10-31-2002, 15:49
i guess ALOT depends on where you live, around here it's all heavy woods....a clean 250yard shot would be very rare, more like 100-175, the sks is more then capable of a 250 yard kill with soft points, if ya can see the DAMN TARGET!
the SKS is a good battle weapon out to 300 or so yards, don't be fooled there are many dead GI's to prove it.
the 7.62x39 has a battle field range of 433 yards, this makes it a good choice for alot of people that need a mbr without paying mbr prices.
i've shot many sks's and know people that own 2...3...even 4 sks's and the MAIN problem with them is the lack of good sights...or mounts.
WICKED WILLIE
12-06-2002, 11:45
well did you get it????
Originally posted by Dennis
I finally ordered one of the AIM Albanian $125 two day sale rifles. I'll be more prepared to discuss these when it arrives. Waiting for the UPS truck is fun.
The SKS is NOT a MBR since it fires that intermediate round. It just doesn't have the effective range.
You need something like a 7.62x54R instead of the 7.62x39.
Dennis Jenkins
:confused:
Sure.
I got the $125 Albanian and a can of the new production Russian 7.62x39.
Nice rifle. It looks like it was mostly roughly stored. It has the initials HB carved into the wood on the right side of the receiver.
I don't think it has been shot much at all since the bluing on the face of the trigger is not disturbed.
Nice rifle.
It's not a main battle rifle since it is chambered in an intermediate cartridge.
Dennis Jenkins
Originally posted by WICKED WILLIE
well did you get it????
:confused:
WICKED WILLIE
12-06-2002, 13:37
what's with this "intermediate cartridge" hang up you seem to be on??
our boys shoot an "intermediate cartridge" hence the 223:confused:
The "short" cartridges like the 7.62x39 and the 5.56x45 are intermediate cartridges for assault rifles.
Main battle rifles fire full power cartridges like 7.62x51 or 7.62x54.
"I'm not mad at anyone" <G>
Dennis Jenkins
Originally posted by WICKED WILLIE
what's with this "intermediate cartridge" hang up you seem to be on??
our boys shoot an "intermediate cartridge" hence the 223:confused:
WICKED WILLIE
12-07-2002, 07:38
i see what your saying, BUT can't figure out why you seem to think that "Main battle rifles fire full power cartridges like 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 & not the 223 or 7.62x39?
the ruskies don't even use the 7.62x54r anymore for their MBR, they use the 5.45X39.....we the U.S. don't use the 7.62x51 as our MBR anymore either we use the 5.56x45 or 223, the trend has been for years to go with lighter ammo so the solider can carry more of it, we and the ruskies figured out you don't need a big round to kill a man at 400yards when a little round with a air bubble in the nose of the bullet will tumble and yaw like a buzz saw, and that same 5.56x45 can be loaded with A/P ammo to hit hardened targets just as the old 7.62's.
the 7.62's do have their place on the battle field, don't get me wrong, but the trend of the MBR has been smaller higher velocity rounds.
didn't say you were mad, sorry if i came across alittle hostle it wasn't my intent, just trying to understand your reasning behind the mbr topic.
Originally posted by Dennis
The "short" cartridges like the 7.62x39 and the 5.56x45 are intermediate cartridges for assault rifles.
Main battle rifles fire full power cartridges like 7.62x51 or 7.62x54.
"I'm not mad at anyone" <G>
Dennis Jenkins
;)
You just classify MBR's a little differently than others. M16's, AK's and SKS's are not considered MBR's buy most people because of the cartridge that they fire.
I have a MAS 49/56 and it fires a full power round the 7.5 MAS. It's a nice rifle but I'd hate to lug around the ammo.
The UPS guy lugged two spam cans of Romanian 8x57 up my snow covered driveway. Missed that. Had it planned as an entertainment event.
Dennis Jenkins
Originally posted by WICKED WILLIE
i see what your saying, BUT can't figure out why you seem to think that "Main battle rifles fire full power cartridges like 7.62x51 or 7.62x54 & not the 223 or 7.62x39?
the ruskies don't even use the 7.62x54r anymore for their MBR, they use the 5.45X39.....we the U.S. don't use the 7.62x51 as our MBR anymore either we use the 5.56x45 or 223, the trend has been for years to go with lighter ammo so the solider can carry more of it, we and the ruskies figured out you don't need a big round to kill a man at 400yards when a little round with a air bubble in the nose of the bullet will tumble and yaw like a buzz saw, and that same 5.56x45 can be loaded with A/P ammo to hit hardened targets just as the old 7.62's.
the 7.62's do have their place on the battle field, don't get me wrong, but the trend of the MBR has been smaller higher velocity rounds.
didn't say you were mad, sorry if i came across alittle hostle it wasn't my intent, just trying to understand your reasning behind the mbr topic.
;)
WICKED WILLIE
12-08-2002, 09:22
it's not just me, the armys of the world are moving to lighter & faster rounds 5.56x45....5.45X39....loaded with differant bullets these rounds can be just as effective as the "BIG BOYZ" at intermediate ranges 400 yards or less, ranges at wich most battle is likely to take place in a modern war/conflict.
Originally posted by Dennis
You just classify MBR's a little differently than others. M16's, AK's and SKS's are not considered MBR's buy most people because of the cartridge that they fire.
I have a MAS 49/56 and it fires a full power round the 7.5 MAS. It's a nice rifle but I'd hate to lug around the ammo.
The UPS guy lugged two spam cans of Romanian 8x57 up my snow covered driveway. Missed that. Had it planned as an entertainment event.
Dennis Jenkins
theopolis
12-22-2002, 00:45
I picked up an Albanian $125 special (but wife wont let me play with it until Christmas) and was also looking for a better sight and stumbled across Mojo Sighting Systems at www.mojosights.com (http://www.mojosights.com). They seem to have a pretty decent set up for the SKS. I plan on getting one eventually. It is worth a try over the original any day of the week.
WICKED WILLIE
12-23-2002, 14:01
williams makes some sights too, but i don't think their up to my standards. http://www.williamsgunsight.com/image_SKS.htm someone may find them useful???
theopolis
12-24-2002, 00:59
Wow, I didn't know Williams made them for SKS. I have heard good things about them in the past, in particular about their mini-14 rear sight replacement. I wish that I could find an SKS rear sight that was finger adjustable for elevation. The Mojo and Williams seem to be only adjustable with tools.
Theo
WICKED WILLIE
02-15-2003, 18:19
i think a scope mount would be a better choice over aftermarket sights anyway, i think there is a place called kalinka or something like that that sells russian made mounts for the sks that REALY DO hold their zero, if i remember right it's www.kalinka.com (http://www.kalinka.com)
Kalinka Optics (http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-local/kowstore.cgi)
I believe this will take you to the Kalinka Optics page.
I've got two SKS's that are scoped, both seem to hold their zero just fine. I don't happen to have one of these but am seriously considering one in the future - though most likely on one of the AK's.
WICKED WILLIE
02-26-2003, 07:29
yeah thats the place, sorry for the bad link:confused:
The main problem with the SKS is lack of a detachable magazine. I'm sorry kids but I don't wanna get stuck in a firefight with a rifle that only carries 10rds in it's fixed magazine.
Well they have strippers!
Oh yeah try loading those strippers clips in the rifle without taking the rifle off the target. I can combat load with an AR, AK, HK, or FAL. With the SKS I need to pull the rifle off my shoulder to reload it.
Well you can get those 30rd USA mags!
Have you tried to change mags quickly with those? Once again you need to have 3 hands to load the things in the gun. One to hold the rifle & charging handle back at the same time, & one to load in the mag. Not very tactical. Not to mention the crud USA threw on the market.
I do own & enjoy shooting a Chinese Norinco SKS paratrooper. I've added a fixed 20rd magazine which actually works. Gun is more accurate than what I expected for the $150 I paid for it. But that slow reloading is a major flaw.
I think the SKS would make a great pass out rifle when the snit hits the fan & unarmed family/friends come to the door. But anyone with a little self-respect would move up to a better rifle as soon as possible. Don't get me wrong, if that's all you can afford I understand, I've been there. But when you get the chance get a better rifle.
Seriously though I got to shoot a Siaga 7.62x39 rifle recently and was very suprised. Rifle shot just as well as my SKS for the same price & it had interchangeable mags. 10rds only but heck I could carry a bag full of them.
I'd reccomend the Siaga over the SKS to new shooters who want some resemblence of an in-expesive combat rifle. I hate to say it but I want to see a test of the Siaga vs. the Mini 14. I think the Siaga would win in either caliber.
WICKED WILLIE
04-25-2003, 10:39
#1 the sks is a better rifle for shooting "prone" no two foot mag hanging out the bottom stopping you from hitting the dirt.
sure you have to take the rifle off target to reload AS with any rifle, but i'd rather carry 20 stripper clips 200 rounds loaded on my bandleer then a "bag " full of mags:confused:
i too like the Siaga, but i would go with the 7.45x39 round in the siaga. :ar15:
kingjoey
08-19-2003, 21:46
Firstly, there has been a trend away from MBR's in world militaries since the early 60's, the M-16, SA-80, AUG, AK, SKS, G-36 are all in the category of light infantry rifles or intermediate rifles. They fire a lightweight, mid-power round that is most effective inside 300 yds. Secondly, in most modern theatres, the fighting is taking place in city streets and jungles, not in open European fields like WWII. Hence there has been a trend towards lighter and smaller rifles with more SMG's being used as well. Ammo is lighter and the average man can comfortably carry more ammo or more gear rather than dragging big bandoleers of mags/stripper clips AND gear. The MBR is a rifle firing a full power cartridge (usually 30 cal or larger) and having and effective range in excess of 500yds with the ability to hit a man at >1000yds if needed. The SKS is a excellent rifle, but an MBR it is not. It was never intended to be a frontline rifle, it is a secondary arm used by irregular troops, MP's, and for other patrol duties. It does perform well in nasty environments and is superior to the AK in some environments. However with a requirement for using a stripper clip you would quickly get cut to ribbons on the frontline, you wouldn't be able to reload quickly enough under fire and a little mud would make them strippers way harder to work. It is at it's best when used in roles where less than ten shots are needed.
wuzzagrunt
08-20-2003, 03:29
Originally posted by WICKED WILLIE@Dec 8 2002, 08:22 AM
it's not just me, the armys of the world are moving to lighter & faster rounds 5.56x45....5.45X39....loaded with differant bullets these rounds can be just as effective as the "BIG BOYZ" at intermediate ranges 400 yards or less, ranges at wich most battle is likely to take place in a modern war/conflict.
The little guys are not as effective as "the big boyz". Unless, somebody has repealed the laws of physics and didn't tell me.
MoeMentum
10-22-2003, 15:44
I heard the US military is now field testing a new round for our troops, its in the 6.5 mm range.
John Wagner
10-31-2003, 06:40
Everyone else has thrown in their opinions, so I might as well do the same. In my opinion, the SKS is a fascinating historical collectible, a Cold War relic that is also great fun to shoot; a real piece of "living history." I'm not counting the Norincos that were made specifically for the US market, of course.
Trying to make a vintage SKS into a modern-day battle rifle with high-cap mags, scope mounts, fancy stocks, etc., only ruins its historical value and still doesn't turn it into anything resembling what's being described in this thread as an "mbr." Like all of those beautiful Springfield 1903s that were hacksawed and filed into hunting rifles by amateur gunsmiths of the 40s and 50s. The military SKS may be cheap and plentiful now, but it's not going to last forever.
Again, none of this applies to the Norincos that were made for the US trade, or to "beater" SKSs that are in rough or incomplete shape to begin with. But for those who want a real mbr/SHTF weapon, there are other rifles that fit the bill better; best to let the good-condition Russians, Romanians, Yugos, Albanians, et. al in their original configuration and find something more modern for the Dark Days that may come.
Kingjoey wrote;
Firstly, there has been a trend away from MBR's in world militaries since the early 60's, the M-16, SA-80, AUG, AK, SKS, G-36 are all in the category of light infantry rifles or intermediate rifles. They fire a lightweight, mid-power round that is most effective inside 300 yds. Secondly, in most modern theatres, the fighting is taking place in city streets and jungles, not in open European fields like WWII. Hence there has been a trend towards lighter and smaller rifles with more SMG's being used as well. Ammo is lighter and the average man can comfortably carry more ammo or more gear rather than dragging big bandoleers of mags/stripper clips AND gear. The MBR is a rifle firing a full power cartridge (usually 30 cal or larger) and having and effective range in excess of 500yds with the ability to hit a man at >1000yds if needed. The SKS is a excellent rifle, but an MBR it is not.
I couldn't have said it better,
Now here's a MBR
A Spanish CETME MBR 7.62X51 The Granddaddy of the HK G-3 and HK 91 family of weapons..
kingjoey
11-13-2003, 22:23
Yep, that's one of the next guns on my "to get" list :D
The only guns I have in the MBR-class would be a pair of Hakims. They fire 8mm Mauser heavy-ball ammo and tip the scale at around 14 lbs with a full clip :cannon:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid56/p8ae2869f0dc918ec3bb384a0eb14cee2/fc724602.jpg
I got about 7 or 8 SKS's as well, the only one that I'd want for a combat role is my M-variants that take the AK-mag (or in my case, the 75rd RPK drums and RPK bipod) :cool:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid56/p5c3ad9e68e2d0de8770b0a33bf2d8c2c/fc7245fc.jpg
I got a pair of matching paratroopers that do well too, but the detach mag setup is a little tough for some folks. I did machine the bolt to M-spec to allow one-hand mag changes on a closed bolt. Personally, I often prefer it over my M4 or SAR1, but in a open theater "combat situation", I'd be much happier with a HK91 or M1A :D
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid56/p3ad012c368b4565f5656b3b099d728b6/fc7245f4.jpg
swill269
11-14-2003, 07:10
:o
i got rid of my h&k 91a for a lighter weapon. :( that was the most accurate semi auto rifle i ever shot. it was the only gun i ever had that i named. (HEAVY METAL) i got old and weak in the arms and shoulders. i down sized to a steyr AUG, second most accurate semi auto i ever shot. can't say enough about the h&k though. :eek:
:cool: :usa: :beer:
Kingjoey, I think you'll like the CETME, Love mine!! they are a little heavy, about 9.5 lbs. unloaded, but not near as heavy as your Hakims, looks like you've got a nice one, I've been looking for one of those at the gunshows for a while now.
If you decide to get a CETME there are a few things you should know first so do some research. A good place is over at Gunboards.com click on the message boards then scroll down to the CETME - FR-8 forum, there's some nice folks over there too, and also check out www.cetmerifles.com that's probably the best cetme site on the planet, any thing you want to know about these fine MBRs you'll find at those places..
Did I mention that's a nice looking Hakim you've got there :) also some nice looking sks's too...
kingjoey
11-17-2003, 21:40
Yep, I'm hoping to buy myself a CETME or FAL for Christmas. I've been good this year and I deserve it (at least thats what I keep telling the girlfriend). The SKS's are really nice for plinking, they work well and never break. The Hakim works well, but when something breaks, parts are hard to find. The MG ammo works great in them though. It's really fun to blow holes in 3/4" plate just for giggles :D
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