Bad or OK?

[bugdrvr]

I was just at the Range with my Mosin 91/59, was shooting some com bloc surplus ammo. I noticed the brass (about 5 of 15) had a crack or two down the neck all the way down to where the case expands, there was also a little chip missing right off of the front of the shells. I have shot mabey 5 shots out of this rifle before this, with that green steel cased stuff and it didn't crack those. Is there a problem with this rifle, or is it just the ammo? Is it unsafe to shoot like this? I would rather not blow myself up.

[Dennis]

I hear this a lot in relation to surplus ammo.

I don't shoot much surplus ammo and it would NOT be ok with me.

Dennis Jenkins


Originally posted by bugdrvr
I was just at the Range with my Mosin 91/59, was shooting some com bloc surplus ammo. I noticed the brass (about 5 of 15) had a crack or two down the neck all the way down to where the case expands, there was also a little chip missing right off of the front of the shells. I have shot mabey 5 shots out of this rifle before this, with that green steel cased stuff and it didn't crack those. Is there a problem with this rifle, or is it just the ammo? Is it unsafe to shoot like this? I would rather not blow myself up.

[bugdrvr]

Thanks, for the reply.
So you would think that there is nothing wrong with the gun then? How would it split in the chamber? Shouldn't it be nice and tight in there?
I have never had a problem like this before and it's making me pretty nervous.

[Dennis]

My surplus 7.62x54R is steel cased. You have some of that high falutin brass cased stuff. <G>

Neck splits are common in surplus ammo. Where you get in trouble is if it blows out at the primer end somewhere.

Case failures are creepy.

Shooting is an inherently dangerous activity.

Dennis Jenkins


Originally posted by bugdrvr
Thanks, for the reply.
So you would think that there is nothing wrong with the gun then? How would it split in the chamber? Shouldn't it be nice and tight in there?
I have never had a problem like this before and it's making me pretty nervous.

[bugdrvr]

Thanks Dennis, I will go get some of the steel cased stuff that my Mosin seems to prefer. You know the cases felt light to me, so I compared them to a .308 case, by feel it is lighter. I think they skimped on brass for these jobbers. I can't even use them as paperweights.
What the heck do you do with 300 live rounds that you can't use?
Oh well, at least me and the rifle are still intact. I checked the bore with a light and those little chips that broke off didn't seem to damage the rifling.
Thanks again for the help!

[Dennis]

A picture is worth a thousand words when it comes to case failures.

Dennis Jenkins

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=134411







Originally posted by bugdrvr
I was just at the Range with my Mosin 91/59, was shooting some com bloc surplus ammo. I noticed the brass (about 5 of 15) had a crack or two down the neck all the way down to where the case expands, there was also a little chip missing right off of the front of the shells. I have shot mabey 5 shots out of this rifle before this, with that green steel cased stuff and it didn't crack those. Is there a problem with this rifle, or is it just the ammo? Is it unsafe to shoot like this? I would rather not blow myself up.

[gunsmithlee]

Sounds like cheaply produced foriegn steel cased ammo to me. Probably made during war time for troops who were expected to get a shot off before dropping to their deaths at Stalingrad...

My advice would be to buy some Sellier and Bellot ammo, if you have the same problems with it, then you need to have the chamber of your rifle examined by a gunsmith, and the headspaced checked.

[Tailgunner]

The link shows a head split, which is a bad thing. Your getting neck splits (in brass) which while not good, isn't all that bad either. The problem stems from improper (or no) annealing after the case was formed. IMHO shoot em.

[Ivanimal]

I would not shoot a surplus weapon till I had the headspace checked by a gunsmith. All you really need to do is Call find out if they have go or no go gauges for that caliber. Moisins have a bad reputation for being put together at various times with various parts. The head spacing is probably a good place to start, and its cheap to check. I dont think trying new things and hoping the problem goes away with better ammo is the solution. should you problem be in the neck of the chamber increased chamber pressure may result in using better ammo. Thats a bad thing.:usa:

[Tailgunner]

The 7.62x54R headspaces on the RIM (that's what the R means RIM), so headspace isn't the problem.

Headspace problems show up as case thinning or seperation, normaly near the base of the case. He is discribing a split (lengthwise) not a seperation (around).

The problem is the how the ammo was manufactured (and possably it's age) not the rifle.

[Ivanimal]

Should the boltface be too far back that would create a neck separation also, If the serial numbers on the bolt and barrel dont match air to caution. have it looked at.
Quoted: "had a crack or two down the neck all the way down to where the case expands"

Sounds like too much room in the chamber to me.

[bugdrvr]

Thanks for all of the input guys.
I will have to locate a smith around here that can check the headspace. As being cautious is being smart with a thing like this. The bolt is from another gun, my stamp is 373, which the bolt has also been stamped albiet in different lettering, but you can see where they tried to remove an old stamp that I believe is 171.

[Tailgunner]

When you go see him, take 3-6 fired cases (steel, brass, brass w/split) along with some unfired (steel and brass). Ask him what he thinks the problem is.
He may want to do a chamber cast, in addition to the headspace check, inorder to check the actual chamber dimentions.