Mini-14 RR Project Results - 06/23

[Z-Man]

Mini-14 Ranch Rifle
Series 196 - Stn/Syn

8 various rounds were tested through the rifle to find a "ideal" load, and it was finally decided that all tests would be done using handloaded 50g V-Max boat tails over 26.0g of IMR 4895 for 3150fps. All groups were 3 or 4-shot @ 100m using a mechanical rest at an indoor federal government facility. Rifle was equipped with a Pentax 6-24x AO for the process.

The barrel was broken in using a standard 100 round "shoot-clean" method.

Initial groups on the unmodified rifle averaged 3.5 to 8"+ with numerous flyers and erratic groupings. Some flyers failed to print on the 12"x12 target, indicating that they were at least 6"+ from point of aim. No distinct shot pattern was evident, and cold barrel POI varied by as much as 6" from hot barrel POI.

The best group recorded from the stock rifle was 3.51".

(NOTE: Ruger, I hope you are reading this, because the stock Mini-14 IS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSISTIENT of 2" groups at 50m regardless of what you claim. And this is even from a machine rest. This firearm was tested under virtually ideal, controlled conditions, and the fact is, it is the most innacurate rifle we have ever tested in this facility. Your butt should be called to the carpet for this Bill Ruger.)

The first modification was a complete bedding of the rifle - action, slide channel, everything - if it could be filled with Accraglas Green, it was. Even under the slide channel.

After firing approximately 50 rounds to allow the bedding and rifle to settle, shots of record were fired, and an immediate and noticable improvement was observed. Groups shrank to an average of 2.3", but most importantly, the flyers were completely eliminated. Cold vs. hot barrel POI also improved dramatically, and was now within 1".

Bedding the rifle had a dramatic effect on accuracy, and is the first improvement a Mini-14 owner should make.

Next, the gas bushing was replaced. The gas bushing swap did not have a noticable effect on accuracy, but recoil was significantly reduced, and case ejection was cut from 45'+ to about 8-10'. It should be noted that the muzzle velocity increased from an average of 3150fps to about 3186fps. Group sizes remaind in the 2.3-2.5" range.

Next, the gas blocks were again removed, and this time lapped, evenly spaced and gapped, and set screws were tightened to an even 18.5 in-lbs all around. The gas block modification had a moderate effect on group size, shrinking the average down to about 2.0".

After hearing of the positive results with them, the next modification was the installation of a muzzle brk / flash hider combo (delta, I think...). The test firing tends to back up this claim...group sizes shrank into the 1.75" range, and the side benefit of reduced muzzle flip allowed the target to remain visible through the shot.

Even though these tests were done using a machine rest, the stock trigger came in at 7.1lbs. So, the trigger group was stoned to reduce second stage by about half...to about 3.75lbs. From the rest this had no effect on group size, but for normal shooting, the reduced trigger pull would be a huge improvment over the heavy, notchy stock trigger pull.

Because the Mini-14 has such a thin low-mass barrel, it was theorized that by shortening its length we would be able to stiffen it out, and thus reduce the vibrations/harmonics at the muzzle. The final modification came in the form of shortening the barrel in small increments...1/4" at a time....cutting, recrowning, and then test firing. This process took considerable time.

Little change in group size was observed until we got the barrel to about 17.25 inches, and it was at that point things started to get interesting. After removing 1.25 inches of barrel and recrowning the groups immediately shrank by about 1/2" and were now regularly approaching the MOA range.

(NOTE: The muzzle brake was removed entirely during the barrel shortening process.)

It was at this point we began doing some real shooting with the gun. We tested first at 100m and had all groups fired for record under 1.5" with the best being 1.15". http://www.videoplanet-xxx.com/images/Ruger/100M.jpg

We then backed out to 200m. As you can see, the results are darned impressive for a Mini...a 1.30" 4 shot group. http://www.videoplanet-xxx.com/images/Ruger/200M.jpg

There you have it...that's where I'm at with my Mini-14 project gun right now. Considering that in the beginning the thing wouldn't hit a basketball at 100m, I don't think I'll be complaining about how it shoots now. I plan to keep tinkering with the Mini to see if I can improve on the results, but all things considered, I am more than pleased.

It should be noted that in all the firing I have done so far with this rifle, I have yet to experience a single jam, malfunction, failure to feed or cycle, or any other form of problem. None.

I hope that some of you might be able to gain some useful information out of this.

[Grinch]

Wow Z-man, quite the project you have gone through there! Thanks for sharing it all with us, very interesting and helpful. Did you check your muzzle velocity after the barrel cut?? Thanks in advance.
-Grinch

[Satan2655]

Z-man - Thank you for your efforts and reporting. I will make this a sticky thread so all will see it. Excellent!

[Z-Man]

Grinch,

After checking the chrono sheets for that session, it looks like the muzzle velocity dropped to an average of 3002fps with the shortened barrel.

Not far from the 200fps / inch of barrel length "rule of thumb."

[cajungeo]

Very impressive Z-man, and very well documented. Thanks for your efforts.
I have done almost the same mods except for the barrel cut. Because my mini was new as yours was, I firelaped the barrel, with abrasive bullets, which cut 1/4" off my average groups. My first group after firelaping was .92" my over all avg. of 5 shots for 10 groups is 1.51" , down from 4 1/2" with factory ammo 46 gr. winchester varmit. My hand loads will improve it more.
That was a very nice job you did.;)

[Z-Man]

Satan and Cajungeo,

Thanks for the props.

Cajungeo, you actually read my mind...my next step, now that about 800 rounds have been sent down it, is to scope the barrel with a mic and see what kind of runout is present. If I need to, I will run some abrasive down the pipe (by hand - not a huge firelapping fan - sorry), followed, of course, by another test shoot. As you know, the barrel should already be well-lapped at this point, but it won't hurt to take some measurements anyhow.

After scoping the bore, I plan to test the muzzle brake again on the shortened barrel just to see what happens with that change.

So far, things have gone in the right direction....I think everything can be done by a knowledgable person for under $40, and that includes the Accraglass, a brake, and a bushing. Heck even the barrel and trigger job can be accomplished by most owners with some thought, care, research and the right tools.

More coming next weekend...

[Teethmonkey]

I think this thread killed mr. ruger! :eek:

[fastang50]

It may have, but it helped the rest of us. Great report.

[trdslinger]

I'd like to do the same things to my new mini, but don't have experience with gunsmithing, and don't know any good mini14 smith in my area which is Murrieta/Temecula, CA

[trdslinger]

Z-man,
I have looked everywhere for a muzzle brake, in stainless steel finish, that will fit a new mini14. Apparently there is a difference in barrel diameter when compared to older mini14's barrels. Where did you get yours?....Where can I get mine? I have a 197 series.

[GREYBEAR]

Trdslinger,
Go to the thread on the Bushmaster muzzlebreak.

[cajungeo]

ts, I don't know if this is the one z-man has, but it works great on my 196 series SS. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product...K5K0ELX7C42B2U0 (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?dept%5Fid=1222&sku=RGR%2D050&imgid=&mscssid=88W5MLSNBQ4E9NLHGK5K0ELX7C42B2U0)
The question of changing the barrel dia, has been asked several times. Several people with the 195/196 have stated the muzzle brake fit theirs just fine. You can do a search for more detail. I believe CD has some bad info. My barrel measures .580" just behind the sight/brake if you want to check it with yours.

[Chris M]

Greetings all,

I've been looking for a muzzlebreak and am interested in the black warrior. I have been concerned about the barrel diameter though. I measured my 196 ranch (blued) barrel with a mic and measured 0.560 in. right behind the sight. The max diameter was 0.572 in about 2" behind the sight (great quality control and may be a problem if I cut the barrel down.). I don't know what the standard should be but, if the muzzlebreak fits 0.580 diameter barrels like Cajungeo's, I guess I'm ok.

By the way, I just got my trigger group back from Mike. I haven't tried it yet (due to injury), but he has a great turnaround time.

Great site guys - good info.

Chris
:usa:

[cajungeo]

Welcome Chris. The BW brake actually fits over the front sight, I couldn't measure the front sight without removing the brake. If the brake fits a little loose, you can do what a few others have, slip in some metal shim, or just leave it loose, it won't hurt anything. Most fit perfect.

[trdslinger]

I ordered 2 of those muzzle brakes from Midway. They are on backorder, but are only $12.49 each. Supposed to have them sometime in the middle of December. I measured my barrel at various points, and think it ought to work.

[mark webley]

Thank God i found this site! Thank you Z-Man for your work and well written report. Finally some one that can tell me something about mini's besides that i bought junk. Would it be possible for you to break down your steps more? I love the fact that you list each stage and give that results of each modification, but i would like to get more how to advice about what you did. I own a mini-30 and my brother has a mini-14(older model) his is missing a gas block screw (he got it this way)so this step has us a little scared. I was going to try the gas port bushings but have not gotten up the B's to try getting those staked screws out( if it aint broke dont fix it thing). Hope you can help. Thanks Mark.

[cajungeo]

Welcome to the forum Mark. You can also get loads of detailed info by using the search button (your upper right), and enter key words. All related posts will come up with your key words, in RED!

[EdinKali]

Mark, you can get a screw to replace the lost one by going to the local hardware store(I got mine at OSH). It is metric, 4mm with a pitch of .7 it would probably be a good idea to take one of the existing ones with you so you can get the length right.

[Geno]

Great job Z-Man, thanks. I plan to have a few things like that done to my Mini 30 when it warms up a little around here.

[bbm]

I purchased a QD scope mount a little while ago and am very upset that my groups are just as bad with a scope as they were with iron sights. I'm very excited about this thread, I thought my only way to get some accuraccy was to get it rebarreled from accuracy systems or someone else for about what I paid for the gun originally. My question is, where can I find detailed information on how to preform the same modifications you did? I've already fixed up my trigger to about a 3 1/2lb pull, and fabricated a new butt with a rubber pad that doesn't slip around on my shoulder. My next do at home thing would be bedding it. How is that done properly? I am hands on capable but just don't know where to begin.. Thanks in advance..

[cajungeo]

Welcome to the forum bbm. There is a lot of info in the mini about tuning your mini. The first thing is to determini what ammo shoots best in your mini. Some may shoot groops 1/2 as tight with one ammo than with another. Get a box or 2 of several different brands, and weights. Head to the range with benchrest, or bipods, or plain old sand bag works well. That being said:
(1) Select ammo
(2) Install muzzle brake ( I have a BlackWarrior $19.95) Will typically cut your average groups in half!
(3) Bed stock. Will tighten average groups, and get rid of flyers!
(4) Trigger Job (Done)
(5) Scope it (Done)

That should get you down to 2" groups or less at 100 yds. Mine shoots 1 1/2" groups with Winchester 45 gr. varmint (best group .92"). 1.15" with reloads (best group .85")

Note: I didn't cut my barrel, some have, and had similar results.

Use the search button above right, and enter key words for more details, all related posts will come up.

[wahturi]

wow. considering your results, 3.5 to 2.3 inch average groups, bedding is definetly the first thing to do on this rifle. and the fact that it eliminated the flyers! my mini has around 400 rounds through it. does bedding only benifit older guns that have gotten loose, or can i see an improvement after bedding my new mini? also, how do muzzle breaks help so well? can anyone explain to a newbie?

[voruzon]

Cajungeo forgot to mention Mike's reduced gas bushing! It's $25, reduces recoil, muzzle flip, wear and tear and most likely improves accuracy because the way gas is vented, it puts bending pressure on the barrel at the gas block.
Less gas is vented, less pressure hit on the barrel.

I'd put bushing as (1) - before the bedding, since you can do it in half an hour without any mess.

I'd also select ammo as the last step - your Mini will shoot quite differently with the new bushing - whatever one of Mike's three you are going to end up using, muzzle brake/barel end weight and bedding. Quite possibly it's ammo tastes would change.

V.

[mtnwatcher]

Wahturi,

if i read this post right, Z-man was bedding a new mini. so i'd advise you to bed yours. look for an article by Ed Harris on tuning the mini on this forum. i think i did a search on bedding, or slide channel when i found it. he explains alot about bedding the mini.

i've bedded mine twice. the first time i didn't bed the stock reinforcements to the stock and the bedding stopped working. this time i did it right i think.

first i took a dremmel and ruffed and pitted the choates stock i wanted to bed.

second i bedded the slide channel and where the slide cap assembly sits. that took alot of glass. let it sit overnight.

third i bedded the stock reinforcements. let it sit overnight.

fourth i bedded the trigger group, includding around the mag well, and the reciever. don't close the trigger group when you do this. leave it about 1-.5 inch open. i used tape to secure it. let it sit for four days. i put 50 rnds of wolf ammo to settle the bedding. then i shot my handloads to check for accuracy.

2.5 groups form prone supported @ 100m.

[mtnwatcher]

doh!:rolleyes:

i just found it out on the web. the article, i mean. it was actually written by John Masen.

[mtnwatcher]

i guess it's gonn be one of those days.

the article was written by James Mason.

now i'm going back to bed.

[wahturi]

thanks, i will be reading that shortly.

[cajungeo]

If I may add a few comments:

The gas bushing dosen't seem to change accuracy by a significent amount, except by reducing felt recoil way down, so one is better able to keep sights/crosshairs on target during rapid fire. The bushing reduces recoil, by reducing the gas operating the slide rod assy, and bolt. Instead of a harsh rearward movement it is an easier movement. The noticable reduction in recoil is from a lesser rearward force of the slide rod/bolt assy, and not the cartridge explosion. The velocity of the bullet is only increased aprox 4 fps. so it will not likely change your favorite ammo, as the barrel harmonics are not changed as they may be by adding a muzzle brake. After adding my muzzle brake, and firelaping my barrel, my worst ammo Winchester 45 grn varmint, became equal with my best Federal Premium.

Bedding will improve any rifle whether it be an old rifle, or new. It only serves to fill the gap between the receiver recoil lugs, and stock, so the force of the cartridge explosion does not allow the receiver/muzzle to move inside the stock under fire. On my mini The .030" gap allowed the muzzle to move up to 3" (those lousy flyers). Bedding my mini tightened groupage an average of 3/4", and no more flyers. It works for me. :D

[mtnwatcher]

Z-man,

by way of clarification, the groups that you posted in this thread, were those done with or without the muzzlebrake and or factory front sight?

[Z-Man]

The final groups were shot after shortening barel, without a muzzle brake, and with a Pentax scope (at 24x) from a machine rest.

[mtnwatcher]

do you think that putting on a muzzle brake or flash hider after shortening the barrel would decrease accuracy? or would the barrel be stiff enough not to change the harmonics?

[Z-Man]

mtnwatcher,

Since I have not yet had a chance to test my shortened Mini with a muzzle brake, I do not have a direct or conclusive answer to your question with what I consider to be verifiable, specific, or measured results.

However, I can tell you (from a pure physics standpoint) virtually ANYTHING/EVERYTHING that you might do to alter or change a barrel (mass, temperature, stiffness, length, etc....) WIIL ultimately change its "harmonics." Even a 1 gram, 1" long-by-1" wide piece of scotch tape stuck to a barrel will change its harmonics (the resonance frequency will drop). And even though you might not be able to measure the change with a ruler on your targets, you can take it to the bank that the harmonics on in the barrel have definitely changed.

I do plan on soldering on a muzzle brake in the near future...and of course, I wil be testing it thoroughly and reporting the results here for all to see.

[cajungeo]

z-man, did you ever firelap your barrel? It tightened my average 5 shot groups at 100 yds. by 1/4". That may not sound like much to some, but a quarter here, and a quarter there, adds up.

[Z-Man]

cajun,

No I haven't done that yet, but I do remember reading your post many months back where you covered your good results with the lapping.

I did (still do) have a number of things I wanted to measure and get before-and-after readings on...and mic'ing the bore to check for runout was (still is) on the list.

And I hear you loud and clear on the 1/4" impovments....they really do add up.

[mtnwatcher]

some of my gun buddies told me that firelapping wears out the barrel faster and that a gun as old as mine doesn't need it nor would it be good for the barrel. i got a 183 series blue, and i got it used so i don't know really how many rounds it has fired.

whaddya think Cajungeo?

Z-man,

forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by ''mic'ing the bore to check for runout''? is that a way of determining if the barrel should be firelapped?

[cajungeo]

No it dosen't wear out the barrel, if done properly.

I agree with you, on an older rifle, with several thousand rounds thru it, it's probably already laped.

I bought my mini new last year. The bore was very rough. I could even feel it with my cleaning patches. Laping the bore smooths the machine marks, and polishes, by using progressively finer grit. I started with Mike Knifongs kit 220, 320, then 600 grit. After viewing mikes bedding video (he shows ya how to make lap bullets) I would probably make mine, but you have to buy the grits, and at least 30 lead bullets. Mike sent 60. Enough for 2 mini's or one real stubern one.

A smooth, polished bore does 3 good things for the rifle. It improves accuracy, increases time between cleaning (less fouling), which will keep your accuracy for longer strings of firing, and to a small degree reduces barrel heat.

The benchresters hand lap their expensive match barrels, by pouring molten lead down the bore to make a slug of lead, which is then imbedded with grit. I like firelaping cause it does a good job, and it is quick, and easy.

My personal view is, I would lap a fairly new mini, not an older one that's been fired several thousand rounds, as I doubt you would see any improvement. I also wouldn't lap a match barrel, as most manufactures, say it isn't necessary as they lap, and polish the bore. Just my 223 cents. ;)

[Z-Man]

The term " mic'ing " is just a short way of referring to the process of running a special micrometer down the bore to check for variations in diameter.

[Mughi-14]

Z-Man,

It is entirely possible that I am a complete idiot here, but I'm a bit baffled by your cutting method. Removing 1/4" at a time sounds pretty precise (far more than my skills are capable of, I fear). Did you cut it down in a lathe or with a saw and then true up the facing with a piloted-facing cutter?

I thought that lathe work required tearing the barrel out of the receiver, which would make your efforts all the more impressive (as if they aren't already).

How did you do the shortening process? Thanks.

Mughi-14 (the "not too mechanically inclined")

BTW, did you get a brake put on it yet?

[Z-Man]

The cutting was done using an industrial precicion abrasive-wheel (diamond) cutting machine.

This particular machine (I believe it was made by Metal Cutting Corp.) has the capability to handle both irregular and tubular shaped material and utilizes multiple-clamp and carriage system to hold, align, and manuever the piece being worked on. Since the unit is designed to handle odd-ball and irregular-shaped objects it was not necessary to remove the barrel for each seperate cut.

Using this machine you can get cuts within .005" every time, so facing and crowning was a snap. I just used the "ol standby" Brownells hand cutter with pilot and the 11-degree recessed target bit for final work.

You certainly COULD take off the barrel and run it on a lathe, but the time vs. effort on a $63 Mini barrel would be way to high....(especially in hindsight, since I ended up making a total of 8 cuts and crowns along the way).

As for the brake, no I have not re-installed it yet.

Once I got to messing around with it, it became obvious that I would have to either enlarge the inside diamter of the brake or decrease the outside diameter of the barrel on the lathe. Since threading the barrel is out of the question on a 196 series, and since I don't know how the brake will affect accuracy on the shortened barrel, I don't really want to silver solder the thing on and then be stuck with it should it have a negative effect on accuracy.

[Mughi-14]

Now it's all coming together in my mind (it will soon be gone, mind you, but it's there now).

Thanks for the information. An 11-degree crown bit... excellent.

I appreciate it a lot. Hacksaws aren't my forte, but I might have access to similar cutting machinery through some mechanical-friends.

Mughi-14

[tgs]

z-man,
When you mic your bore what type of mic will you use and where can I get one? What is runout? Will you mic for runout? what do you expect to find?
thanks

[2 gun]

Z MAN you said you used 50gr vmax in a 196 mini. Was that a 1x9 twist? would 'nt a heavier bullet do better in high twist rate barrel? have you tried diffrent loads after the test? Would you recomend not useing a drimmel to cut the barrel?

[migyver]

Originally posted by EdinKali@Dec 6 2002, 04:02 PM
Mark, you can get a screw to replace the lost one by going to the local hardware store(I got mine at OSH). It is metric, 4mm with a pitch of .7 it would probably be a good idea to take one of the existing ones with you so you can get the length right.
Actually, 4mm with 0.7 pitch
is close but not correct. The actual thread size is
8-36. You will probably need to go to a bolt & fastener
supply shop to find it locally. The 4mm size will
fit too loosely! The bolt &
screw supply house I bought
it from said it is fairly
common in the aircraft industry.

[tri70]

What is the size of your best groups with all you have done? I think it is great the way you broke down the steps, good information! Have you done any shooting lately?

-thanks tri70 :cannon:

[RKOHLES]

Originally posted by Z-Man@Jun 23 2002, 07:04 AM
Mini-14 Ranch Rifle
Series 196 - Stn/Syn

8 various rounds were tested through the rifle to find a "ideal" load, and it was finally decided that all tests would be done using handloaded 50g V-Max boat tails over 26.0g of IMR 4895 for 3150fps. All groups were 3 or 4-shot @ 100m using a mechanical rest at an indoor federal government facility. Rifle was equipped with a Pentax 6-24x AO for the process.

The barrel was broken in using a standard 100 round "shoot-clean" method.

Initial groups on the unmodified rifle averaged 3.5 to 8"+ with numerous flyers and erratic groupings. Some flyers failed to print on the 12"x12 target, indicating that they were at least 6"+ from point of aim. No distinct shot pattern was evident, and cold barrel POI varied by as much as 6" from hot barrel POI.

The best group recorded from the stock rifle was 3.51".

(NOTE: Ruger, I hope you are reading this, because the stock Mini-14 IS NOT CAPABLE OF CONSISTIENT of 2" groups at 50m regardless of what you claim. And this is even from a machine rest. This firearm was tested under virtually ideal, controlled conditions, and the fact is, it is the most innacurate rifle we have ever tested in this facility. Your butt should be called to the carpet for this Bill Ruger.)

The first modification was a complete bedding of the rifle - action, slide channel, everything - if it could be filled with Accraglas Green, it was. Even under the slide channel.

After firing approximately 50 rounds to allow the bedding and rifle to settle, shots of record were fired, and an immediate and noticable improvement was observed. Groups shrank to an average of 2.3", but most importantly, the flyers were completely eliminated. Cold vs. hot barrel POI also improved dramatically, and was now within 1".

Bedding the rifle had a dramatic effect on accuracy, and is the first improvement a Mini-14 owner should make.

Next, the gas bushing was replaced. The gas bushing swap did not have a noticable effect on accuracy, but recoil was significantly reduced, and case ejection was cut from 45'+ to about 8-10'. It should be noted that the muzzle velocity increased from an average of 3150fps to about 3186fps. Group sizes remaind in the 2.3-2.5" range.

Next, the gas blocks were again removed, and this time lapped, evenly spaced and gapped, and set screws were tightened to an even 18.5 in-lbs all around. The gas block modification had a moderate effect on group size, shrinking the average down to about 2.0".

After hearing of the positive results with them, the next modification was the installation of a muzzle brk / flash hider combo (delta, I think...). The test firing tends to back up this claim...group sizes shrank into the 1.75" range, and the side benefit of reduced muzzle flip allowed the target to remain visible through the shot.

Even though these tests were done using a machine rest, the stock trigger came in at 7.1lbs. So, the trigger group was stoned to reduce second stage by about half...to about 3.75lbs. From the rest this had no effect on group size, but for normal shooting, the reduced trigger pull would be a huge improvment over the heavy, notchy stock trigger pull.

Because the Mini-14 has such a thin low-mass barrel, it was theorized that by shortening its length we would be able to stiffen it out, and thus reduce the vibrations/harmonics at the muzzle. The final modification came in the form of shortening the barrel in small increments...1/4" at a time....cutting, recrowning, and then test firing. This process took considerable time.

Little change in group size was observed until we got the barrel to about 17.25 inches, and it was at that point things started to get interesting. After removing 1.25 inches of barrel and recrowning the groups immediately shrank by about 1/2" and were now regularly approaching the MOA range.

(NOTE: The muzzle brake was removed entirely during the barrel shortening process.)

It was at this point we began doing some real shooting with the gun. We tested first at 100m and had all groups fired for record under 1.5" with the best being 1.15". http://www.videoplanet-xxx.com/images/Ruger/100M.jpg

We then backed out to 200m. As you can see, the results are darned impressive for a Mini...a 1.30" 4 shot group. http://www.videoplanet-xxx.com/images/Ruger/200M.jpg

There you have it...that's where I'm at with my Mini-14 project gun right now. Considering that in the beginning the thing wouldn't hit a basketball at 100m, I don't think I'll be complaining about how it shoots now. I plan to keep tinkering with the Mini to see if I can improve on the results, but all things considered, I am more than pleased.

It should be noted that in all the firing I have done so far with this rifle, I have yet to experience a single jam, malfunction, failure to feed or cycle, or any other form of problem. None.

I hope that some of you might be able to gain some useful information out of this.
Z MAN
Read your post on cutting your barrel to 17 1/4". Plan to do the same to mine but would like to know if you have shot yours yet with the brake. Thought maybe I could cut mine to 17 1/2 or 3/4 and have the same results with the brake on.
Thanks
Dick

[Taquito971]

While out looking for an 8-36 cap screw for my gas block I found that both fastener shops in town did not have the correct pitch for my gasblock. Anyone else have this problem? Also, what was the total cut lenth for the rifle barrel in the above detailed thread? His last length mentioned is 17.25" but it seem that if you cut the barrel 8 times with 1/4" off each time you'd end up with a 16.5 inch barrel. Am I right?

Brian

[cajungeo]

I believe he said he cut a total of 1.25", which if subtracted from18.5 you get the 17.25.

The gas block screws are gun screws. You won't find them in a hardware store. Numerich gun parts, Brownells, and Ruger has the screws for the mini gas blocks.

[kkina]

Had no luck either finding matching gas block screws at the hardware store, ended up ordering actual Ruger replacements from Brownell's.

[Taquito971]

Yeah, I figured Ruger would use some odd size to require you to get new screws from them direct. For what it's worth they sent me one free. And it didn't take long to get here either.

And thanks for setting me straight on the barrel length. I re-read it, several times, and finally found where he said he cut 1.25 inches. I guess he stopped while he was ahead. If you cut too much you can't put it back right...

Brian

[dave1387]

I have a 197 series Mini14 and the Masen/Black Warrior brakes work just fine. Despite the notice on their website saying it won't fit.

[geoman]

hmmm interesting thought to add here. I did not buy my mini14 for its ability to put 5 shots on top of each other at 100m. I got it to put 30 rds in a chest size target at 100yrds. its fun to shoot easy to pack and nice to look at. not meaning to hurt or insult anyone on here. but I hope I never become that guy at the range that has a 3000.00 dollar bolt action the shoots once every 10 minutes after repetedly cleaning his barrel and whines about my semi auto rounds landing on his table after he shows up after im all ready shooting. :lol:
now that was said with love from us guys that spray and pray :rapid:

[Carnifex]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. When I shoot, I shoot for accuracy. Accuracy is my ultimate goal and a challange for me, that is why I do it. Anyone can throw lead down range, but it takes skill to do so with precision. :sniper:

[gossman]

When shooting my semi's at the range, I try to get the closest bench next to the wall on the right side so that the cases bounce off the wall. Also makes it easy to field day the brass. If I get stuck somewhere else, if someone sets up next to me I warn them about the brass flying. Everyone deserves a pleasant day at the range. I abhor the brass catchers but I am thinking about picking one up for the mini. My AR places them all over my shoulder in one spot, the Garand throws them ahead of the bench, and the mini can peg shooters six benches away!

[cajungeo]

I have a cardboard box I put my range bag, and shooting rest in. At the range I set the cardboard box up on its sice about a foot from the ejection port. My brass is ejected in the box so I don't have to look for my brass, or apologize for my mini's enthusiasm in ejecting brass. It works for me. :D

[geoman]

Dont get me wrong i wont set up next to anyone but I dont whine if someone setsup next to me. but to complain to someone who was setup b4 you get there and there is 10 benchs open geeeeeez. and im not aposed to pin point shooting.
and soon as i can afford it i will get my mini a bull barrel and three point beding.
but I also knew when I got the mini that 6 inch at 100m average with out a lot of practise and a little work. like 400 bucks ago my ak47 was a shoot it till your out of ammo kinda weapon. anyway I just think the mini is a fun gun to shoot and have :lol: lack of accuracy is not a problem I hit what I aim at.

[TheCapt]

Z-Man! Nice work.

Z-Man or anybody else:
I have a stock Mini 30. Would doing to it exactly what you did your Mini 14 make a drastic improvement - specifically, would shortening the barrel to 17.25 be advised, or are the harmonics different for the 7.62?

TheCapt

[MarkT]

VERY impressive test Z-Man!!!

I would push for you to try the clamp on bipod adaptor, until I read the heater hose trick. Braided steel hose for a couple of bucks looks good to me.

I bought the Harris bipod clamp on adaptor and shrunk my 3-6" "patterns" to just about 1" groups with NO other changes!!! I spent $35.00

Good shooting, Mark

[natedog375]

I have a Harris bipod and adaptor, and while I haven't shot for groups with the apaptor on versus off, I can't see how it would make a difference. Care to explain?

[Alaskaman]

Hi Z-man, dear all

I´m new in this forum and I have a Ruger 30. After reading your great report I have some questions.

1. You write you replace the gas bushing. You are shooting without a gas bushing ?

2. After each shortening of the barrel you install the orginal iron sights ?

3. When you start, you found your ideal load ( 50 grain V-Max over 26.0 IMR 4895 ). After all modifications, is it possible that a load which works not so good, now is much more better ?

regards

Alaskaman

[Taquito971]

Hey, I just found your post kind of hidden out here and thought I'd give you a few tips. Firstly, I don't think that he is shooting without a gas bushing, possibly a smaller one but this really shouldn't affect accuracy.

Secondly, I don't think he re-installed the front sight. I believe he was using a scoped rifle and just re-sighted the scope.

Thirdly, it is absolutely possible that a load that worked well before the modificates will not work as well now. One thing is for sure though, the modifications will definetly improve accuracy using all types of rounds fired.

Try your post in the general section and more people will notice it. Welcome!

Brian

[Bullmoose]

Z-Man; I am interested in ifnding out if your reinstalled your muzzle break? If so How much? Thanks, Jim.

[tri70]

This is excellent for anyone who is new to the mini to read.

-thanks Z

-tri :usa:

[countrysmith]

what size gas bushing did you use??

[joencrew]

I took a lot of your ideas and ran some by my nephew, he gave me a hint or two, now i'm shooting .3-.5 depending on ammo.
This is the thread I posted with pics http://perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=51631
JH

[amamnn]

Some time ago I made it my life's work to accurize my mini-14. I changed all the springs, added recoil buffers, moly coated the trigger assembly and the bore and began looking at new (bull) barrels.
One thing I noticed in all the accurizing articles and advertisements was that the main cause of inaccuracy in the mini-14 (and the Remington 742 which I also owned) was muzzle whip. I happened to be reading an issue of "Rifle Shooter" magazine that had a feature article concerning the wonderful job a certain gunsmith was doing fixing that problem with both guns by essentially hanging a weight on the muzzle, when I came across an ad for a bi pod that was attachable via sling swivel or on the muzzle.
I bought a cheap (19.95) bipodand attached it to the muzzle of my mini-14 which had been the butt of so many jokes at the range. My groups shrank dramatically. I have to say that the attachment of that bi pod was the most effective one thing I have ever done to improve accuracy on any rifle any time anywhere in all my life. I went from shooting a hand spread sized group at 100 yards to a fist sized group at 200 yards. I saved hundreds of dollars and my "sow's ear" reputation for my lil mini.
I suppose I could tighten those groups a bit by loading with the same care and dies I use for benchrest, but well, the mini-14 is and always will be my fun gun, and these days I can hit the 6" gong every time out at 200 yards and not have to obsess over the loads to do it. Besides, I inherited a lifetime supply of South African ammo for it.

[kralizec]

what about a heavier barrel-is this possible? what's the cheapest way to accurize a mini? i have a mini and have considered unloading it and purchasing another ( different ) rifle;i've always loved ruger firearms but i don't want to spend the purchase price of a rifle to make it accurate,when there are other .223 platforms out there.

[ibbuckshot]

I am one of the new guys on the site. Its been four years since Z man has posted the information on getting his mini rancher to shoot at a respectable level. Has he been able to do any more posting on the subject?? I am very interested in being able to obtain anything that would improve my stainless rancher. I am thinking of trying to locate a thumbhole stock for my rancher. Has anyone restocked and which company did you go with and why??? Thanks for your help.
buckshot

[timlt]

I am one of the new guys on the site. Its been four years since Z man has posted the information on getting his mini rancher to shoot at a respectable level. Has he been able to do any more posting on the subject?? I am very interested in being able to obtain anything that would improve my stainless rancher. I am thinking of trying to locate a thumbhole stock for my rancher. Has anyone restocked and which company did you go with and why??? Thanks for your help.
buckshot

I got a new laminated stock from ASI. They carry a thumbhole stock too. You can get it here, go to this page and scroll down till you see their thumbhole stocks. They'll sell them directly to you:

http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/mini_14_30_accessories.html

[Farside]

I saw an interesting site called www.aimstraight.net, where a gadget is attached to the barrel to keep it cool, and also does some harmonics tricks. The cost was around a hundred. There is some interesting data there, and it advertises groups around 1.5" and less.

[rugerdaddy]

... threading the barrel is out of the question on a 196 series...

I know it's been awhile since this has been posted, but Z-Man if you see this (or anyone else) why is threading the barrel on a 196 series out of the question? I have a 197 series I've been thinking of threading.

[Bill_in_TX]

I know it's been awhile since this has been posted, but Z-Man if you see this (or anyone else) why is threading the barrel on a 196 series out of the question? I have a 197 series I've been thinking of threading.
I think (I'm not sure since I can't remember what happened yesterday all that well anymore ;) ) that this thread was originally started before the sunset provision of the AWB let it die. Right now it should be perfectly legal to thread that barrel.

[JonR827]

Hi,

Just bought a S/S Rancher (195 series) at auction two weekends ago. Then I found this site. Was reading your posts and have a question..

Where do you measure the barrel from..?

On this gun I measured from the forward end of the receiver to the tip of the barrel and came up with exactly 17.5"

There appears to be wear marks both forward and aft of the front sight. The barrel tip also appears to have been machined.

This is the first Mini-14 I've owned and I realize how little I know about accurate shooting, but thanks to you folks on this site I'm learning quickly.. :)

I've owned a 10/22 carbine with a 4x Tasco scope for almost 30 years, but have only used it for plinking and squirrels...

My other fun guns are Savage mod 24s, one in .22 mag/20 ga with a period (1955 or so) Savage 2.5X scope and the other is .22 LR/.410

Both these guns will drive nails at 50 yds with rifled slugs.

Now that I've read up on the subject, I'm hoping to set up both the rugers to that kind of accuracy.

Thanks for any advice,

Jon Hathaway
Amherst, NH

BTW: I recently found a bone stock unfired mini-14 (1977 manufacture date) with Ruger marked 20rd and 30rd factory magazines. Bought it for $700 and sent it out to my Father in AZ. He is using it for target shooting and coyotes... He is happy with the 3" pattern (5 shots)@ 150-200 yds from a bench rest.

[gundoc]

Barrels are measured from the closed bolt. With the chamber empty insert a rod into the bore and let it rest of the bolt face, then mark the rod at the muzzle. Factory barrels measure 18.5 inches on the mini and ranch series.

[pharroutpc]

Will this John Masen Black Warrior brake fit the new 580 series? I had been looking into the one with the HK sight up front also but Ive been reluctant to buy any brake due to having one of the newest minis in the 580 series. Any suggestions? Oh yeah.....anyone heard of the newer ones having a different diameter OD about halfway down the barrel?

[rapid223fire]

This is the exact reason I wont be buying another mini-14 ever unless it is a friggin steal of a deal or has too have a stamp on the paperwork.

[YellowNBlack]

I hate to be the barer of bad new but I just shot my target mini today and out of the box with a Nikon scope my groups were under .75 at 50 yards. True it was not 100 yards but I will be back at the range soon. Had my son at the range and he was shooting his new 22 cal pistol.
No trigger job, No "boss system" tuning, Shooting off carpeted wooden blocks.
I am very happy to be at this point with an out of the box gun.

I will be changing the gas system, having a trigger job done and then I will doing a glass bedding job after that if needed. Looking forward to hitting a few Coyotes this weekend.
Jerry

[Rjak]

I just tryed to order a BW Muzzle Brake from John Masen and they would not sell it to me bieng I was in Calif .. has anyone from calif been able to order a muzzle brake ??

[spanky32354]

I just got a 180 series mini. Are there any real concerns about this weapon that I need to be aware of? Are the tips that have been addressed here advisable for my series? By the way, this is a great forum.

[epags]

Rjak: Order John Masen's XTA Muzzlebrake with front sight 1428B (blue) or 1438S (stainless) and they can and will ship to California.

Spanky32354: the 180 does not have a good way to mount a scope. You have to remove the rear sight and the mount I have is too low and ejected brass keeps hitting the scope & mount and sometimes 'jumps' back into the action locking it up. All series 181 and on have a side bracket that can allow a much better scope mount to be added.....I have both a 180 and a 181. I use the open sights on the 180 and a scope on the 181.

I have added the above muzzlebrake to each one and have had both cryogentically treated. Am now in the process of trigger jobs. I have 'greased' up the trigger actions and am able to shoot 1-7/8" MOA at 100 yards with the scope.

[Corporal Tiger]

Someone else asked what if anything you would say this excellent tesing can tell us about improving the mini 30?

Different round very similiar rifle, what can we extrapolate from your data about improving the mini 30?
:rolleyes:

[Corporal Tiger]

Someone else asked what if anything you would say this excellent tesing can tell us about improving the mini 30?

Different round very similiar rifle, what can we extrapolate from your data about improving the mini 30?

[YOSTY]

Z-Man - What is the gas block modification you did? After market parts? Save the 40' hunt for brass.

[fcoy2]

Thanks for the clarity. It seems like when people post their groupings, they often don't specify the shooting position (benchrest, sandbags, bipod, etc). Is a benchrest with both ends of the rifle supported the norm on this forum, or just the front of the rifle supported?

Sorry if it's a newbie question.
:D

[XIII]

Hey Guys! I'm still learning about the Mini 14, as some of u may know from my previous postings. I was just wondering about the "Series" # , I see 180, 181 and so on the forum. I was just wondering if someone could tell me the series # of my mini? Its the 6.8mm Mini 14, rate twist 1:10 I think?

As the previous poster Sorry if its a noobie question and if its off topic but I figured this is the best place to ask;) or maybe steer me in the right direction with a link ;)

[Walkenbear]

The "series" number is the first three numbers of the rifles serial number;
xxx-xxxxx.
The newer mini 14 is 580-xxxxx, the newer mini 30 is 581-xxxxx.
The 180-xxxx was the first series of mini's, no longer supported by Ruger.

I'm curious as to what the 6.8 spc series designation is, when you look at yours please post it here (not your whole serial number just the prefix), I'm wondering if it is 582-xxxxx.

[XIII]

Thanks for the info Walkenbear! Found my serial #, weird tho, mine reads
581-xxxxx same as for what u said the Mini 30 is?

[squinty]

I have a Hogue rubber stock which does not lend itself well to bedding. It does hold the rifle pretty snug, though. SHould I scrap it and get a diferent stock, and bed it?

[YOSTY]

My mod was to first remove the four 4mm screws holding the gas block housing. Be a good idea to get 4 new ones at the hardware store, a metric allen wrench, and blue loctite. I made a new gas port, .185" dia, .300" long, with a .042 hole (#58 drill bit). A 3/64" drill @ .047" still threw brass about 20'. With that, a welded muzzle brake, and 69 grain hpbt bullets, I'm at 1 1/4" off a rest with a scope. Didn't try bedding or barrel cutting.

[drridgway]

IMO, bedding is an important ingredient in the process of achieving better accuracy for the Mini-14.

Even the Hogue stock will benefit from bedding. GunDoc has several videos that will guide you through the process if you chose to do-it-yourself.

Here is a link to his Web site: http://www.greatwestgunsmithing.com/

I spent a lot of time and money making my Mini-14 shoot the way I wanted it to but it was worth it!

http://perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64354

You have to decide how "accurate" you want your Mini to shoot and go for it--you'll be glad you did.

[Ballenxj]

Z Man, Thanks for starting this thread, and to all those that have contributed.
Gun Doc, I've been eying your site and services. I found it first at The Firing Line dot com. That's the same place where I found out about this great site. :D
-Bruce

[Ballenxj]

Mini-14 Ranch Rifle
Series 196 - Stn/Syn
<----SNIP----->
I hope that some of you might be able to gain some useful information out of this.
I found this info "very" useful. I note this was done with a Ranch Rifle, Do you suppose one of the older series Mini's will respond in a similar fashion?
Thanks for taking the time to write this up. :D
-Bruce

[YOSTY]

Hi Bruce,
Suppose it will improve all, but also find the loads which your gun likes. Still getting 1 1/4" groups with 69 grain & 2 1/2" groups with 55 grain. Didn't try bedding yet.