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I have a standard synthetic mini 14. This is my first rifle and I got this in March of 2002. One day I just decided I want to get into shooting, and thats exactly what I did. I have been screwing around at the range at 50 and 100 yards. I live in California and its illegal to have a muzzle brake, although i could do something under the table =). I would measure my best by hitting a 5 1/2 inch circle at 100 yards, 14 out of 20 times. Currently I am using Wolf 55gr 223 ammo. I got a deal on it, like 1000 rounds for 130 bucks. I am thinking about changing my rear sight, as its the standard factory issue and it looks like someone took a needle and poked a hole through some plastic. Any suggestions? I looked at www.aosightsystems.com (http://www.aosightsystems.com) and took a look around their sight packages, anyone have any experience with these?:ar15: I would say the grouping is about 5 inches, but it could just be my shooting fundamentals that need to be worked on. Any other thoughts of tightening up that group?
Muzzle brakes are NOT illegal in California.
nellybell
05-27-2002, 19:21
Howdy Ken.Welcome to the site.I too live in the PRoK.Southern
area.I have a muzzle brake on my mini and it is NOT illegal.
If you put a flash supressor on,well now that's another can
of worms.I have the paperwork from the maker of mine and
it's legal.The only thing you have to do is once the barrel is
threaded you have to have the brake pinned and/or welded
on.This I have done to mine.There are a few different sights
for the mini.I don't know if you have a Ranch mini or standard.
I'm going to post a couple of different sites for you.You have
to remember that the barrel is not the best and if you want
to get tight shots you will have to spend some dough.Ask
Bill Watson.He is going thru this as well as I did.Our ways
of doing it are a little different but any way you look at it,
it's gonna cost some.One thing you can do to help is install
a recoil buffer.It will help accuracy a bit as you don't have
the op-rod banging into the receiver as hard.I use a buffer
from my Colt Goverment and it works fine.Anyway here ya
be.Muzzlebrake and then a site for different parts and such.
Any way you look at it,welcome to the shootin sport.bg
[I should say this brake is not for everyone.It does look
weird as all get-out,but does what I wanted which is
reduce recoil almost to a nil.I like it,but it does look
strange,and it makes cleaning the bore a bit difficult with
the seperated walls of the brake in trying to feed either
a cleaning rod or what I use an Otis kit.The rod will
get caught on the middle seperating wall.It's a little
bit of a pain,but considering what it provides for me,
I can live with it.]
www.jpar15.com (http://www.jpar15.com)
www.brownells.com (http://www.brownells.com)
The black warrior double muzzle brake on cheaperthandirt.com says it will not fit mini-14s with a serial number of 195 or higher, that the barrel diameter is too large. Mine is 196:( Of course. I have a K-Mini-14/5P Are their any other muzzle brakes that will fit and are good that dont look like their out of a space movie (lol sorry bgs). www.johnmasen.com (http://www.johnmasen.com) says that muzzle brakes cannot currently be shipped to California:( So where do i get one then. Also what is this stock bedding I am hearing about? maybe ill wait on that one though.
nellybell
05-28-2002, 00:37
Like I mentioned the brake I have is not for everyone,in fact I've
gotten more than my fair share of abuse with it.That's ok as I
was an abused child growin up.[Just kiddin.my folks were more
than generous with me].There are a number of folks making
brakes for the mini-14. Brownells has some in their catalog,
which by the way for 5.00 is one of the biggest goodies catalog
going. There is a site called Accuracy Sys that have one along
with Clarks Custom Guns,etc. If you want more info,you can look
at the other threads on the the mini-14 forum.You'll find some
decent posts regarding the brake. You can also use your search
engine,Yahoo,etc. All you do is type in "Mini-14 Muzzle
Brake". You will get some sites that can help you.I know it is
hard to find a brake out here in the PRoK.The only thing I can
tell you is once you go for it,it will have to be attached in such
a way as NOT to be able to be removed.Pinned and welded.That
is what we got with Davis in office and SB23 as the so-called
"Assault Weapons"law.Here are some sites.
www.midwayusa.com (http://www.midwayusa.com)
www.cdnn.com (http://www.cdnn.com)
www.AccuracySystemsInc.com (http://www.AccuracySystemsInc.com)
www.tapco.com (http://www.tapco.com)
cajungeo
05-28-2002, 10:53
Ken, I have a New SS Ranch 196-series, I installed the Black warrior double muzzle brake, on my mini $19.95. It fits perfect, and looks cool!!! It cut my groups in half. From 4 1/2" to 2 1/4" at 100 yds. It reduces recoil i.e. muzzle jump also. Installation is easy, just drive out the front sight pin, slip the brake over the front sight, drive in the longer supplied roll pin. Bam, your done. 5 min. tops. I have done a few other things to my mini so my average group is 1.5" with some groups sub MOA. I'm working on some reloads now to try and tighten things up a little more.
I didn't like my sights either so I scoped mine.
It might be a good idea to read for yourself the laws in your state, so you won't have to wonder if the guy next to ya is giving ya some mis-info. Check out this link:
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state
Note: I'd keep the receipt for the muzzle brake, in a safe place in case one day some commy points a finger at your mini, and you need to prove it is a muzzle brake. Some people don't know the diff.
Satan2655
05-28-2002, 12:19
Hey, I gots a dumb question (being a newbie and all) ;)
If I were to take off my front sight completely, do you guys think I could still keep my Black Warrior Double Brake on? Is there a groove for the retaining pin cut into the barrel?
So it appears that I can buy that blackwarrior double muzzle brake. Ill buy it and tell ya how it goes. So I just weld that baby on there and I dont have to register it or anything like that. Every gun shop employee and gun range worker said that I can't get a muzzle brake, I would have to register it. They must have been mistaken with a flash suppressor. Thanks for the info people.
No, I think the double-brake is a flashider/brake combo,so that would be a no go.
I went to a gunsmith today and they were saying a brake on an SKS was illegal. :confused:
Bill, do you know for sure about brakes in Kali? I have never heard about having to weld them on to be legal. Would JB Weld count?
nellybell
05-28-2002, 22:43
Well it looks like we need to try and get a handle on this.
I'll post the anti-gun nazi's site.Just remember these creeps
are out to screw lawful gun-owners.Bill Lockyer is one of the
dirtiest.So watch yer back about givin any info to these so-
called "people".You should ck out the calnra site everyday.bg
www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/awguide/index.html (http://www.caag.state.ca.us/firearms/awguide/index.html)
www.calnra.org (http://www.calnra.org)
cajungeo
05-28-2002, 22:52
No it won't stay on. Yes there is a slot in the top of the barrel, but you need the Hole in the sight blade to hold the roll pin in place.
KEN you missed my post a couple up, you don't need to weld it on you pin it on. Also what Bam said is partly correct. I have seen a clone muzzle brake by John Mason, they call it a muzzle brake flash hider combo, Cheaper than dirt calls it a double muzzle brake, and my receipt says muzzle brake. Bushmaster has a real muzzle brake for $39. it also pins in you don't need to weld it. Here is your states laws:
Effective January 1, 2000, the definition of "assault weapon" also includes any of the following: (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. (B) A thumbhole stock. © A folding or telescoping stock. (D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher. (E) A flash suppressor. (F) A forward pistol grip. (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. (4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: (A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer. (B) A second handgrip. © A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel. (D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. (5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. (6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following: (A) A folding or telescoping stock. (B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip. (7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine. (8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder. (B) "Assault weapon" does not include any antique firearm. © The following definitions shall apply under this section: (1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device. (2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds. (3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899. Firearms that fit the above descriptions which were possessed on December 31, 1999 can be kept if they are registered between January 1, 2000 and December 31, 2000. Firearms that are on the Roberti-Roos list, but not currently validly registered, cannot now be registered.
A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of an "assault weapon," shall do one of the following: Prior to bringing the "assault weapon" into the state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice, or the person shall cause the "assault weapon" to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer who shall redeliver that "assault weapon" to the person if that person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice.
Unless otherwise specified, registered "assault weapons" may only be possessed:
1. At registrant's residence, place of business, or other property owned by such registrant, or on property owned by another with permission.
2. At certain recognized target ranges or shooting clubs.
3. At certain recognized exhibitions.
4. While on publicly owned land upon which possession and use of "assault weapons" is specifically permitted by the managing agency.
5. While transporting the assault weapon between any of the places listed above, or to any licensed gun dealer.
It is a felony to offer for sale, give or lend any "assault weapon". The does not apply to a person who lends a registered "assault weapon" to another person who is 18 years of age or over if all of the following conditions apply: (1) the person to whom the "assault weapon" is lent is not prohibited from possessing a firearm and remains in the presence of the registered possessor, and (2) the "assault weapon" is possessed at a licensed target range, or at the target range of a public or private club organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets, or at an exhibition, display or education project sponsored by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized firearms entity.
If you go back and read the rest of it you will see SKS are considered assult weapons.
cheaperthandirt's exact description: for Blackwarrior Double Muzzle Brake. "Double Muzzle Brake designed to fit the mini-14 only. Easy to install muzzle brake with both holes and slots to drastically reduce recoil and muzzle flip. Slips on around your original front sight and tightens in place. Requires no gunsmithing and allows you to keep your current front sight in place. Stainless steel, new in package. Legal to own, this is a muzzle brake NOT a flashhider." That convinces me that its not a flash suppressor. In the assault weapons identification a flash suppressor alters the flash in any way. No information about a muzzle brake.
Thought I'd jump in here - I also have a 196 series SS Ranch, and the John Masen double muzzle brake fits fine, although a shim or two is necessary to make it tight to the barrel.
I think the problem lies in the precise definition of "muzzle brake" vs. "flash suppressor". I read somewhere (here?) that a muzzle brake should have an inside diameter similar to the barrel caliber (i.e. .223), whereas a flash suppressor has a much larger inside diameter, more like the outside diameter of the barrel. Under this definition, the John Masen model is definitely more of a flash suppressor than a muzzle brake. It stands to reason that if you want to reduce muzzle climb, it would be more effective to vent the gases directly from the barrel inner diameter rather than venting them after they've expanded to the larger inner diameter of the John Masen brake. Many muzzle brakes are composed simply of holes or slots in the upper surface of the barrel near the muzzle. I suspect the real issue is the appearance, not the function. If the anti-assault gun folks saw the John Masen rig, I bet they would declare it an assault gun component. Comments?
The real problem lies in the lawmakers of california. The rules are so vague and it IS a one party state. Everyone knows what their ultimate goal is, and since they can't achieve it just yet, they will make laws to harrass and annoy gun owners with these laws. Now, really, whats a flash suppressor. DEFINITION of A flash suppressor- alters the flash in such a way that it makes people spontaneously rob banks. :ar15: Puttin on sunglasses might also alter the flash, so we should ban those also. Hell youll need a license probably to own sunglasses. All we can do pretty much is vote for the NRA backed candidate, and even then change probably wont amount to much, im gonna move somewhere else, and believe me its a lot more than just the gun laws in california.
Satan2655
05-29-2002, 13:23
Aren't ski masks illegal in California yet? I mean, look at those guys who robbed that bank in LA with automatic weapons ('97 was it?). They had full body armor on with ski masks under their helmets.
I thought it was the ski masks that made people rob banks?
I also wonder why someone in that police force didn't have a hig-powered rifle at hand? Pistol bullets and shotgun blasts didn't even slow these bastards down. Where was the guy with a Mini-14 shooting these guys in the head/neck/even their guns?
If you are wearing an 'armor' glove, wouldn't a direct hit at least break all his fingers? Makes it awful hard to pull the trigger when your hand is all busted.
My point is: Were the police not adequately armed because of some retarded Liberal politician? I wouldn't doubt it. Let me on top of a building for a few minutes with a Mini-14, a good sighted scope, and some FMJ rounds. Those bank robbers would have been liver sausage.
cajungeo
05-29-2002, 18:21
" I suspect the real issue is the appearance, not the function. " I think vista is correct, so I sent an e-mail to the NRA asking for their definition of a "Flash hider", and Muzzle Brake. Also how we can tell the difference by looking at one. I tried to e-mail the ATF, but they won't answer an e-mail, only hand written letters. I guess that way they can expand their file, on individuals, finger prints, dna sample, etc. So tomorrow a.m. the letter along with dna will be sent to them posing the same questions. I figure 5 days there, 10 different desk shuffles ( min. 3 days each desk), 20 days in their legal dept. and 5 days back we will have our answer "Dear sir we have received your inquiry, and are in the process of processing it." Here is an example. Can you tell which it is?
Just got a reply from the NRA, they want it in writing also. What's up with that?
Cajungeo:
Are you sure you want to ask the ATF for a definition? That might trigger a policy review and an answer we don't want to hear. Kind of like "...walking across the street to get your a** kicked!" I certainly would not recommend asking the California anti-gun politicos for an opinion.
cajungeo
05-30-2002, 19:44
IT didn't get mailed, as your probably right, I will ask the sherrif. I shoot with him twice a month. He let me shoot his swat rifle, .5"groups all day long. Anyway I'd hate to think I was doing the right thing, and land in jail, or give some advise causing someone else to go to jail, because of a stupid definition. Thats why I'm keeping my recipt which says "Muzzle Brake"!
nellybell
05-31-2002, 12:49
I will only add this.Only on a site that involves weapons can
we agree to disagree.If you tried to talk to any left winger
regarding this issue they would turn you into the "Gestopo"
SS men dressed as ATF would be knocking down your doors
scaring you and your family;"Where's it at ! Come on we know
you have one.We're going to lock up your family for EVER !"
Ok maybe that is a little over-reactive,but you must admit
that everyday swat teams and tactical teams practice invading
urban areas.Anyway as to the reason my brake is welded on
is here.I followed the directions of this company regarding
their brake as it's my luck that I always seem to get the guy
with the badge who's just had a fight with his wife that
morning and looks to jack up some one,any one.Paranoid ?
Yea I guess so,but I'm still alive, sorta...If you decide to
look at this site,they have a paragraph at the bottom
regarding their brake and the crime bill.
www.jpar15.com/customer.htm (http://www.jpar15.com/customer.htm)
wish me luck my cheaperthandirt.com black warrior double muzzle brake just came in the mail, and im going to install it in california, and hopefully i wont be taken out by a sharpshooter while driving to the range. The receipt SAYS MUZZLE BRAKE
nellybell
06-01-2002, 16:41
On the wood stock mini-14's Cheaper than dirt sells a
recoil pad that adds around an inch or so to the stock
and really cuts down on recoil.I don't know if the Ruger
sysn. stock has the same curve at the rear of the
stock as the wood one.Before I switched over to a
Choate stock I had this pad on my stock.I liked it
a lot.Anyway Ken,like I said before welcome to this
forum and to the sport of shooting,and shoot the
dickins out of that mini...bg
cajungeo
06-02-2002, 08:12
bg, my Hogue stock came with a nice rubber butt plate which helps with "Felt Recoil", but the thing which helped with the "Muzzle Jump Recoil", besides the brake, is the changing to a smaller gas bushing! Next time I take it to the range, I will bring the 10/22, and compare with my mini. Their dosen't seem to be much diff.
nellybell
06-04-2002, 17:20
I had read here at this site that the bushing kit aval is
really a nice little set-up.I can see how this makes a diff.
I clean my rifle each time I use it and was looking at the
size of the bushing from the Factory.I too think I will buy
a kit from Mike and try to cut down on recoil.Mine is barely
felt,but looking for spendt brass that is tossed as far as
25 ft behind me is nonsense.I plan on using some lapuda
brass or something similar and losing this is simply tossing
money.As it is I pay anywhere from 14.00 to 18.00 a box
for Black Hills Moly.Thanks for the tip.
Satan2655
06-04-2002, 18:51
25 feet only? My Mini-14 Ranch throws brass a mean 60 feet at about 4 o'clock! Try finding brass that far out. Thats why I use a brass catcher. Works great. Keep your friends at the range. I was demonstrating to a friend how far it throws brass and threw one right onto the hood of somebodies car. Ooops!
I'm thinking about doing the bushing thing too, I'm just a little hesitant to loosen those gas block bolts. I have a feeling Ruger has those staked for a reason...
nellybell
06-04-2002, 22:48
Well I'll admit that each time I go to my local range,I'm asked to
either use the far right lane for rifles or keep it in the case.In
regards to the gas block,I've had mine apart I don't know how
many times to clean the block,the bushing,the gas pipe, etc
with no problems encountered.I pay special attention to where
the gas bushing is on the barrel as it's easy to lose.When I
re-install all the parts into the gas block.I put just a dab of
moly grease on the bushing to keep it in place.Other than that
I take it all down,with the exception of the trigger group and
the bolt which I use Birchwood/Caseys GunScrubber.Man does
that stuff work good.Putting back together I use Sweet's 7.65
bore cleaner with a dab of JB's bore goup and then Break Free
lube.Not once has this weapon failed to fire.Now having failed
to hit something is not the fault of the rifle,but the "loose nut
behind the wheel",as it were....
Hi, Gents,
I'm new here and am really glad I found this forum! I've got a Mini 1 Ranch/SS/Composite stock that has frustrated the dickens out of me due to the accuracy problem. I've been reading a lot of the posts here and it sounds like there may be some hope yet....;)
This discussion about the muzzle break/flash hiders has me a bit puzzled though. cajungeo, you posted this pic:
http://perfectunion.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=7814
I've got the same one and like yourself "trusted" that it was a muzzle break. But after reading the various posts and the ATF regs, I'm beginning to wonder if the flash hider capabilities of this design make it illegal on a post-'94 rifle, despite what our receipts say. Has anyone tested it in the dark to see what happens?
Another question....I picked up a Butler Creek folding stock a few years ago out of ignorance of the regs. I've not installed it and have installed the bushing that keeps it from folding. However, in order to be legal, do I have to pin or weld it open? I sure don't need to make a naive mistake and get unlucky some day. Our sheriff around here has already been in the psycho ward a few times, and when he needs some good print, he goes out of his way to make a show of things.
Thanks. Looking forward to spending time here.
:usa: :beer:
Satan2655
07-01-2002, 10:53
Welcome aboard, Stache.
I believe if you pin and weld the stock open, it will then be legal. However, I'm not a lawyer nor politician, so you can probably trust me.
Yes, the accuracy problems with the Mini are many. However, for most of us here, it provides a seemingly insurmountable problem and we love troubleshooting it. I mean, lets face it - if it weren't for the accuracy problems, the impossible to find hi-cap mags and the poor customer service, we'd have nothing to talk about! :confused: But if there's one thing we can all agree on - its just plain fun to shoot this gun!
The double brake seems to only do one thing for me at night - it directs the orange flame out the muzzle so that I barely see the flash when using my scope. This allows me to retain my "night eyes" without having that ghost image.
Hi, Satan2655,
I can easily pin the stock open. I'll have to take a look at welding it.
However, based on what you're saying about the combo brake/hider redirecting the flash away from your vision in the scope, it sounds like it would be illegal to have that on the gun IF I installed the pistol grip stock. Maybe I'll just sell the new stock to keep from having a hassle over it.
Thanks.
Satan2655
07-01-2002, 11:24
Well, I wouldn't really call it a flash suppressor. There are other threads on this topic. Check them out.
Satan, it was my reading through all the other threads that made me begin to wonder.
Specifically, it was this comment:
After further consideration prompted by public comments, the Department concluded that the absence of statutorily defined specific measurement standards or a statutory requirement to establish those standards demonstrates a legislative intent to identify any device that reduces or redirects flash from the shooter's field of vision as a flash suppressor regardless of its name and intended/additional purpose. Thus, "flash hiders" are flash suppressors only if they reduce or redirect flash from the shooter's field of vision.
It sounds like there is some debate on what would be interpreted by whom, at least on the model I have. Guess I better find one that is only a muzzle break instead of this combo one.
Thanks again.
Dave3006
07-08-2002, 22:57
If you want the brake on, put it on. Screw the stupid laws. Screw them. The laws are ridiculous and unconstitutional. Did you hear the colonists debating whether it was illegal to dump tea in the Boston bay? For crying outloud, the socialists have you guys shaking in your skirts counting the angels on the head of a pin. It is pretty pathetic. If they told you to paint your rifle pink and wear a dress, would you?
Dave
- living in occupied Kalifornia, Mission Viejo.
[QUOTE]Dave - living in occupied Kalifornia, Mission Viejo. /QUOTE]
Please enlighten us on what you have done to actively protest the Socialistic, illegal laws in the People's Republic of Kalifornia?
While I agree with your comments on the issues, I sure as hell won't advertise my final decision on a public forum that I'm sure is read by "our friendly men in blue". Besides, remember Ruby Ridge and Waco? Those were the result of "minor" violations of the unconstitutional laws too. And since my wife and dog don't shoot, I'd be on my own here to fend off the invasion of the troops. So go suck an egg......:rolleyes: :samurai:
Dave3006
07-09-2002, 08:55
First of all, I don't waste my time fretting over the silly details of their silly laws. Second, I still value my right to free speach and am willing to speak against bad laws (I am not a coward like you). Third, I realize that all gunowners will lose their rights eventually and all guns will be confiscated. Because, if people like you are afraid to speak against these laws in public and twist and contort themselves to follow every ridiculous detail, there is no way you will ultimately fight to keep your guns when they come for them. Suck on that one a while, stache.
Dave3006, your personal attacks don't hold any value, especially since you have no idea on the amount of effort I put in to get laws changed, both locally and nationally. It's obvious that your efforts in Kali haven't done much good.
At the same time, I've also learned that it is the better part of valor to not let yourself get tripped up by the silly details of the laws while you are working to get them changed. To do so can be foolish if you're on your own. We need to band together to do that as a group. However, team building skills such as your own do nothing to help the cause.
And don't you worry, if/when the troops come to attempt confiscation, I will be one of the ones fighting to resist. At least I'll still be on the outside in order to do so, and won't be sitting behind bars because I ignored a silly ass law in the meantime.
Go have your morning latte', and don't forget your Prozak.
Dave3006
07-09-2002, 09:20
I don't think so. You will be first in line to turn them in. Even if you did fight, how many bad guys will you be able to neutralize with your single shot .22? That will be all that is left...
You will be first in line to turn them in.
I see...that's why you live in our great Socialist State of the People's Republic of Kalifornia, and I still live, by choice, in a state where all my guns are legal??? Who has turned what in? I sure haven't, and never plan to. And I sure as hell don't have to defend myself to some unknown character on the internet.
Now, since you apparently aren't able to conduct any meaningful conversations without personally attacking someone, let's just agree to disagree. If you change your mind on how you handle yourself, let me know. Maybe we can all learn something from each other on how to get these silly ass laws changed.
:rolleyes:
Dave3006
07-09-2002, 09:49
You finally said something worthwhile. If you really want to learn how to change these laws, listen up... Don't dignify them by obeying them. And, don't criticize people for speaking out against them PUBLICALLY. Massive civil disobediance is the only chance gunowners have in this war. It has to be done now before it is too late. It is silly to think you can vote, write letters, or anything else. The socialists are laughing their heads off at us. It only takes one bad election to loose most of your gun rights. Ask any Kalifornian. Gunowners are like the rest of the population. The dirty little secret is that they are just do what they are told.
I was here before the laws. I am not leaving. They can.
Likewise. Now we're getting somewhere. I'm more than willing to have discussions and debates about laws and political agendas. If you'd made that post earlier and hadn't attacked me/us with comments about pink rifles and dresses, we would have had all sorts of fun by now......;)
I did note however that you have also given advice to others about being cautious about the laws/LEO impressions. Remember this?
By the way, the Kali Nazi's will have a sh*t fit if they see that pistol grip and the muzzle brake could be interpreted as a flash hider. I personally think these laws are illegal and stupid. I am just giving you a heads up.
My point being is that I too think these laws are illegal and stupid. However, I'm "smart" (?) enough to make sure I don't get tripped up by them, at least not intentionally. As for massive civil disobedience, I agree. It's high time the 80 million gun owners in this country woke up to what is going on and did something about it. Are you the point man?
cajungeo
07-09-2002, 16:29
Well I'm glad you two realize you both are on the same side, I just got off work, and read your posts, I saw more sparks than the 4th of July. Now for the lecture: "We like friendly discussion, but lets keep it intelligent, and adult like ( don't mean adult as in X rated) PLEASE, NO MORE NAME CALLING! We should treat each other with RESPECT, even if the other seems to be 180 degrees off in their thinking. One day when the SHTF, we may all have to rely on each other. Untill then lets do what we can. Speaking against something in public is our right if we are intelligent about it, and keeping up on polititions voting habits, we can elect someone more inline with out thinking, and voting out the rest. I know we get outvoted by liberals sometimes, but don't give up the fight my brothers!!!:usa: :usa: :usa:
Satan2655
07-09-2002, 20:03
AMEN Cajungeo!
:usa: :usa: :usa: :usa:
I'm with you on this, cajungeo. I'm a moderator myself on a large forum and I agree with your 'lecture'. It's something about pink rifles and dresses that gets my dander up in the morning....;)
:usa: :beer: ;)
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