best self/home defense shotgun? [Archive]

Nighthawk

05-25-2002, 11:10

Thanks for the picture machinegunjo, I like the looks of that gun thats the first one I think Ive seen. Should be a seller. I like the Mossberg model 500 persuader. The price is right and the quality good. In my area it is the most common L.E. shotgun issued. And my home gun is the same. The way I prefer to load it is, first round 00 buck then a slug then own and own. That makes for a good self defense combination against two legged critters as well as four legged ones. The remington 870 and the others all work we just all have our picks. the Mossberg also has an 8 round capacity which is a plus. BOY I like the looks of that FN shotgun.

Nascarnhlnra

06-04-2002, 15:36

Mossberg 590 more options from the factory for the $ :usa: plus 10 year warranty :ar15:

Ivanimal

06-26-2002, 23:22

If you are buyin a gun only for self defense at home what difference does it make which short high capacity gun you buy? All you need is one maybe two shots and it has served its purpose. I like a more useful yet lethal combination like the Remington 870 every model of that gun is a shooter. Why do you think more police departments are standardized on that weapon. Why do you think more hunters got started on that gun? Price and reliability would be my guess. The 870 is still my choice to pull out of the safe on weekend rabbit and squirrel trips.:usa:

Nascarnhlnra

06-27-2002, 05:28

I wouldn't stake my life on the 1-2 shot theory, but thats just me better to have more rounds without reloading in a high pressure situation than not and find out the hard way you did need them. But we all have varied opinions which is what keeps all this interesting. I think the older 870's is where the rep came from I doubt it would be as strong if they started with the dimpled new models, atleast as far as the express model. :usa:

Ivanimal

06-30-2002, 02:15

If its fire power you seek you can add a magazine extension to the tube for 40 bucks to make it an 8 shot. Then you can remove it and bag some quail on the week end with a plug in for legality. Also made as add ons for the 870...10 round rotary magazines, barrels with tactical mounts, Turkey barrels, short barrels, extreme choked barrels, ...........................ect............all these can be added and subtracted in your garage with basic tools. It is a shame that remington is producing a lower quality model of a great gun, however the action and slide are still the same (which says nothing for fit and finish) and the more expensive models (wingmaster) still look as though they could have been on the shelf in 1976.:usa:

O\'Reilly

06-30-2002, 05:08

I like this 870 with "00". Still looking for a 590 with speedfeed stock,extended mag,heatshield,bayo lug, ghost ring sights and a parkerized finish. Below 300.00(now you know why i'm still looking)

http://gallery.alloutdoorschat.com/smoking gun/870_00_3.jpg

deerhntr

07-17-2002, 16:18

I have a remington 870 as one of my home defense weapons
for Over 10 years too, Just remember to "relax" your magazine spring every few months if you keep it loaded ,I just keep another
spring and rotate them.A great deal right now in a remington is
the 870 Express "HD" (home defense) it is all parkerized and has a synthetic stock for $265.00 or for $299.00 you can have it with a factory magazine extenson. How can you beat that?
If you want a shotgun that will go bang when it REALLY counts
get the remington ,In MY personal opinion the mossberg and
the new "nova" is garbage. My 2 cents:sniper:

Nascarnhlnra

08-07-2002, 12:38

Mossberg is far from garbage my friend:ar15:

deerhntr

08-07-2002, 16:50

This is my personal experience with this shotgun,Over the years i had two of them FAIL on me in the field which in turn just
spoiled my hunt for the day but god forbid it would have gave up the ghost in a defensive senerio i would not be here to write this
reply.I was attracted to these guns for the same reason millions
of other folks are they are cheap priced.For anyone wanting to buy a mossberg just go to your dealer and compare it side by
side with a remington 870 express which in the same price range
then make your choice.;)

Nascarnhlnra

08-08-2002, 04:55

Already have and the way the new 870 express's look I wouldn't have one they are far from the 870 that gave Rem their rep.So I still chose the Mossberg and it hasn't failed on me yet in over 500 rounds and doubt it will.And with that PC lock Rem is now installing on their guns guess they won't get any of my money unless I find an older Marine Mag that doesn't have the new lock.

Ivanimal

08-11-2002, 01:32

I own 3 remingtons with the new j style locks. the keys are still in the boxes and the boxes are on the shelves, all never to be turned by me.

A great solution to a non exsistant problem.

I have fired both guns and the weight alone of the 870 made me shoot better, less recoil, came to shoulder fast, and better feel on the action. However the person who lent me his gun in the field has good things to say about the Mossberg. I am glad. He was there so I wont ever have to look at a 200 dollar mossberg and say "should I"?:usa:

Aldo

08-28-2002, 22:51

I would go with a used Ithaca Model 37.I have 3 and one is from 1947 with over 13,000 rounds thru it not a bit of trouble.Remeber ANY pump can be jamed with the action being short stroked."happens with 2 3/4" in a 3" chamber gun usaully"Pump her hard,keep her clean,use good ammo and any of the Winchester,Remington,Mossberg,Ithaca,even the old High Standard Flight Kings"one of the slickest pumps ever built"will serve you well.Aldo

one good cop

10-24-2002, 14:57

THE BEST HOME DEFENSE SHOTGUNS WOULD BE A 11/87 POLICE 8 SHOT AUTO OR A BENELLI M-3 AUTO OR PUMP BOTH WITH PISTOL GRIP STOCKS AND BOTH WITH GHOST RINGS I ONLY OWN THE BEST NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.I GOT ABOUT 750.00 IN THE REMINGTON 11/87 AND 900.00 IN THE BENELLI M-3 THE NEXT PROJECT IS A PUMP PROBALLY A 870 MAGNUM POLICE OR A 870 MARINE MAGNUM . :ar15: :cool:

one good cop

10-24-2002, 15:06

HEY I LIKE THAT FN SHOTGUN YOU GOT THERE. I GOT SOME AR STUFF AND CASH IF INTERESTED IN TRADE. LET ME KNOW

Mike S

01-10-2003, 14:19

I like the 870. I keep 18 rounds total in or on my gun.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res06fvc/870s1.jpg
Mike S. :beer:

one good cop

02-23-2003, 19:09

these are my best defense ....sweeettttt a benelli m-1 super 90 and a 11/87 police expensive toys enjoy.......8 in the benelli 18 on the 11/87 da heat........mike s.. nice choice also, thats my next shotgun..

Hairbear

02-25-2003, 09:41

A good reliable alternative is the Winchester 1300 Defender. It comes in 20ga & 12ge. It has a long magizine tube with 7 x 3" and 8 x 2 3/4". It a pump so they are more relable than an auto. It has a rotory luck up so it strong & lightweight. If you realy want extra fire power you can buy a couple of boxes of Agilau mini's they are 2" and you can fit 12 rounds in a defender. This ammo will feed with no modification. To make these rounds feed with an 870 or 500 you have to modify the ejection system. Also you can pick them up for 3 bills.

Mike S

02-28-2003, 18:58

Me with my 870.

http://guned.com/pages/movies/6thnewcomp12gage.rm

Mike S.:ar15:

WartHog

03-03-2003, 20:38

I like my 590, have never had a problem in over 400 rounds.

MR. BRENNEKE

05-22-2003, 14:29

Originally posted by one good cop
THE BEST HOME DEFENSE SHOTGUNS WOULD BE A 11/87 POLICE 8 SHOT AUTO OR A BENELLI M-3 AUTO OR PUMP BOTH WITH PISTOL GRIP STOCKS AND BOTH WITH GHOST RINGS I ONLY OWN THE BEST NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.I GOT ABOUT 750.00 IN THE REMINGTON 11/87 AND 900.00 IN THE BENELLI M-3 THE NEXT PROJECT IS A PUMP PROBALLY A 870 MAGNUM POLICE OR A 870 MARINE MAGNUM . :ar15: :cool:

I would reverse the order, but then of course Im biased. :cool:

one good cop

06-05-2003, 18:40

mr.brenneke that is nice. what mods you got on it . verry impressive shotgun i just layed away a scattergun tec. shotgun 870 today with all the bell and whisles i'll be in the pump house soon..... :D

Dogman1

06-05-2003, 18:47

God- How do I post my pics!?!?! I have a BenelliM1 S90- but I love my Savage 311R Guard Gun...18' Dbl Brl 12gauge!!!! :2guns: :confused: :rapid:

MR. BRENNEKE

06-06-2003, 18:16

Originally posted by one good cop
mr.brenneke that is nice. what mods you got on it . verry impressive shotgun i just layed away a scattergun tec. shotgun 870 today with all the bell and whisles i'll be in the pump house soon..... :D

Hello OGC, :) Thanks.

Its an 870 with GhostRing Sights, gotta SideSaddle on it. Also a ButtCuff, heatshield. All the perks I could manage. :D

The load breakdown is two 7 1/2's in the mag, five #4buck on the cuff and four brenneke slugs in the saddle. And an UncleMikes sling.Thats what sets shotguns apart from every other firearm. DIVERSITY. ;)

http://forums.allaboutguns.com/albums/nightwatch/870mm_mult.sized.jpg

one good cop

06-07-2003, 09:05

i had to say nice shotgun again man i love them 870's . i went and layed a scattergun technoligies 870 yesterday man i'm impressed with that shotgun i will be posting pics when i get it. hey brenneke are you a cop like me ? did i tell you nice shotgun????

Edward429451

06-07-2003, 11:10

Them some sweet shotguns you guys got there. Gotta love them 870's. Here's an older WM I picked up for 2 bills used, with a very slick action. 12, 2-3/4" only. I added a police trade-in barrel w/bead, 6+1 ST extension, Enlarged safety button, 6 rnd sidesaddle, Blackhawk 5 rnd buttcuff/cheekpad and my first stab at a camo job since I had to cut the forearm for the sidesaddle. It does real good with slugs out to about 50/60 yards. 17 rnds on the gun (Mixture of 00 & slugs) and a Blackhawk sling which holds extra rnds not pictured.

boogeyman

06-10-2003, 12:13

Here is a tip for all of you. Aguila mini shells. 12GA OO buck/ 5/8 OZ slugs and No9 shot. 1 1/2" long and you can fit SHI# load of them in your gun. How about 12 in the side saddle! and 6 in the speed feed 3!They have been known to feed funny in some pump guns and I'm not sure about semis. The real bonus is the No9 shot will penatrate less indoors.:rapid:

22man

06-19-2003, 04:10

Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine. No, I am not kidding. Those who advocate the shotgun are typically the inexperienced, talking about the inexperienced. The 9mm is low cost,and so "TAME" that practice with a 22 autorifle really does translate into ability with the 9mm carbine. The Mag Safe "swat" ammo takes care of overpenetration worrries, and offers well over 500 ft lbs from carbine barrels. The 9mm is welcome at indoor ranges, the 12 ga is not. 12 ga ammo is not cheap either.

Ever FIRE a `12ga,without ear protection, in a small room? The concussion and blast are enough to nearly make you drop the gun. By contrast, the 9mm carbine's blast,while loud enough to be painful, is quite tolerable, for repeat shots, and you will still be able to hear the dead thug's buddies trying to sneak around you.

22man

06-19-2003, 11:57

the shotgun IS for experts, sillyboy. the 9 carbine is for those who have little in the way of such skills and confidence. At the typical ranges, the shotgun's pattern isn't WIDE ENOUGH to be any real help. It's at best 4" wide at 10 ft from the muzzle, and usually it's more like 6 ft, from your feet, 3 ft from the muzzle, with the pattern being 1" wide. Big, heavy shotgun is quite likely to be TAKEN from the average guy, trying to use it when surprised, in bad light, worried about his family, trying to use a phone, light, etc as he holds a longarm.

22man

06-19-2003, 12:44

wrong, you STUPIDLY ASSUME that everyone will be fully exposed. A typical 20" riot barrel will not RELIABLY put ONE 00 pellet on a cover user's head at more than 20m. If you step outside your house, with a fight a possibilty, and you don't have an autorifle in your hands, you are a LAME. Indoors, the odds are VERY low that you will GET TO ANY longarm, in time. The only way to HAVE a gun when needed, all the time, is to WEAR a pistol, concealed, all the time. That insures that it's not in improper hands, too.

If the barrel IS tightly enough choked to be worth a damn on cover users at 35 yds, it's WORTHLESS as far as any pattern spread's helping you at 15 ft. It will be 1.5" wide at that distance, at best.

22man

06-19-2003, 14:38

not and, it's more like "so" you are fos about the shotgun being so wonderful to 35 yds. It's not, or else it's pattern is too tight to be helpful indoors. That info is all in the above post. I gotta lead you by your little hand, or what?

WORLDEATER

06-20-2003, 14:16

man that 870 that the cop's got is pretty as hell. but i'd take my benelli m4. nothing'll make a mother run like the sound of my bolt closing when i press the bolt release. and the amount of buck i can fill the air with scares me. my ears are ringing right now from the first time i rapid fired that bad boy without ear plugs about 4 months ago (stupid) man a 9mm rifle ain't going to scare sh_t. when someone's in my house i'm all about intimidation. most likly they want to rob you while your sleeping so when your standing there shotgun leveled at there head there's no reason to open fire cause he'll just want to leave more than he's ever wanted anything before. and when it comes down to it you don't really want to open fire anyway. imagine all the problems you'd have if you didn't kill him in the first shot. that would mean ether you shoot him twice and explane to the cops why you finished him off when he was defenseless on the ground and bleeding or you let him live and it's his word against yours on why you open'd fire on him. if someone is in your house and you make the choice to use lethal force you have to kill him on the first shot so you can make up a story explaning how he reached into his coat and you were in fear for your life. cause a cop told me that i have to make the same distinction that they do to use lethal force i have to feel my life is in danger.

blzn69

06-21-2003, 12:42

I own a Mossberg 590A1 9round shotgun. My shotgun was the first firearm I ever owned, so I have become quite efficient with it. Enough that when I shoot and rack the slide I attract a lot of attention at the range. I once was rapid firing at range with bird shot and buck shot when a swat cop came up to me and offered to let me try his Rem 1187. He noticed I was not intimidated by the shotgun and we both lit up the range like to the 4th of July. A shotgun used for home defense proves to an assilant that you are serious about protecting your family and home and racking the slide in a hostile situation has just proved that the situation has just gotten worse for the offender.

And by the way, I feel sorry for people like 22man.

I bring the brash and flash

blzn69

one good cop

06-23-2003, 04:57

22man what kind of f@$ing moron are u anyway.... a 12 gague loaded with oo buck followed with slugs will knock your dick in the dirt on the recieving end .....how can you even compare a 9mm to a 12ga. you are and idiot .have you ever killed any one or thing with a 9mm i have and it is a lame ass round . i have had countless times shooting animals with a 9mm and the worst is a 40 pound coon that was ****ed off in a yard with some dogs 6 shots later we beat it with a shovel to make it die. needless to say we dont carry 9mm on duty any more and yes all shots but two should have been fatal . now couple that with the 4 medium sized dogs all taking more than 4 shots with your coveted 9mm. i used to be a die hard 9mm man until i got educated in the real world of .40 cal ....and no pistol round equals a rifle or a shotgun in real life. the shotgun i use at 0 to 70 yards i can consistantly hit head shots with slugs all day long and indoors give me a shotgun any day ....knockdown would be tripple that of a 9mm rifle ass get your facts together before you call someone out ...i live my experience 8 yrs law enforcement 2 yrs swat ... put your books down and get some real exp.... :angry: idiot

CrazyMiniMan

06-26-2003, 11:44

22man's series of posts are, how shall I say, screwed up? He doesnt make sense. Are there two 22man's out there?

Anyway, the best thing in the world for indoor close range defense is a short barreled shotgun. I do have experience with this, once upon a time two "gentlemen" broke into my parents house. I was home alone with my little brother, who was 11 at the time. We were both upstairs in the TV room watching a movie, when I heard the glass shatter in the downstairs backdoor. As I ran to my room to grab my Remington 870, I saw two punks enter my house and start going through thte kitchen. I loaded my 870, crept downstairs, and racked the slide, chambering a shell. The sound froze the two would-be-thieves, and when I yelled at them to get out, they made tracks so fast I had no idea that a human could move that fast.
My point is, I the sound of an Automatic pistols safety being switched off is barely audible, and the cocking of a double action revolver is nowhere near as loud as the loud CLACK-CLACK of a 12 gauge. I dont know about the rest of yall, but I vastly prefer scarring someone away than shooting them.
And, if it does come down to either kill or be killed, a 9 MM makes a hole, a shotgun makes a freakin CRATER. I have shot a hog at close range (a good 2 feet from the muzzle) with 00 Buckshot and the way his head dissapeared was simply amazing, and disgusting. I have also taken a shot at a dying hog with a 9MM Berretta 92FS, he simply grunted and kept struggling.
So I would cast my vote with shotgun, preferably an 870 pump.

:cannon:

Edward429451

06-26-2003, 20:41

[QUOTE]and indoors give me a shotgun any day ....

I agree with this. Nothing beats a shotgun indoors. If I gotta step outside though...Gimme a rifle, and not a 9mm either.

DocWagon

06-27-2003, 17:45

I own a 9mm carbine with a laser, and I like it for close range work (0-30). You'd be amazed on what a difference a laser makes on any firearm. Any of you who say they are all "Hollywood" should really try one first. I was skeptical, too, but after the first time firing on the move with a properly sighted in laser dot, its tough to beat. I've also got a floating dot scope on it for medium range work (30-80 yards).

However, this is used as a possum/cat on the porch gun in its main role. Would I use on a human intruder? Absolutely, although its not my first choice, I think it would be effective. Especially against multiple attackers, I believe that the precision shot placement of the laser aided sighting, the ability to fire one handed (if needed) with ease and control, and the sheer speed of follow up shots would make it effective. I'm not arguing that a carbine is better than a shotgun, I'm just saying I think either can be a viable option.

Speaking of intimidation, noting a red dot on your buddy's forehead or your own chest is likely going to cause you to rethink the situation.

Mughi-14

07-01-2003, 22:18

I'd say the best self-defense shotgun is an 870. I don't own one, but I shoot them often. Of all the shotguns I've used, I like the 870 the most.

My second bet is a Franchi 612 VS. I have one of these, the 18" Defense, and have never had cycling problems of any type. With Federal 00 low-recoil I can almost empty it faster than my brother's slick 870.

My other 12 is a Benelli Special Purpose Nova. I like the features but the 870 action is so much nicer. I do have friends with a 500, 835, and a 590A1 - they are nice guns. I just don't care for the feel of Winchesters.

Just my opinion based on my experiences - get the 12 that fits you best. That's the key for me (and why I have a Franchi over an 870).

Mughi-14 :2guns:

WORLDEATER

07-02-2003, 14:42

i'm getting me some rubber buckshot in a few day's. could you imagine a semi-auto 7 rnd shotgun full of rubber buck? you could shoot an intruder as soon as you see him and if he gives you any lip keep shooting till he leaves. you could even tell him that your last shot is a slug. if that don't get him running i don't think he's still breathing.
ONE GOOD COP: is this legal? you should know better than me.

one good cop

07-04-2003, 12:06

although it would be fun it would probally get you killed. If an intruder was in your house by all means do what needs to be done but play with him. ie cat and mouse he would probally sue you afterwards for pain and suffering especially if you shot him in the head or back area and he claimed to be parallized dont laugh it has happened and the crooks won in court for big money.If you shoot someone do not use rubber use lead... dead dont speak.

WORLDEATER

07-07-2003, 10:25

ahmen to that.

my buddie's got a mossberg mavrick anyone know who makes accessory's for it?

MR. BRENNEKE

07-19-2003, 23:32

Originally posted by one good cop@Jun 7 2003, 09:05 AM
i had to say nice shotgun again man i love them 870's . i went and layed a scattergun technoligies 870 yesterday man i'm impressed with that shotgun i will be posting pics when i get it. hey brenneke are you a cop like me ? did i tell you nice shotgun????
Hi OGC. :) No. Im not a cop, but a Patriot. Thanks. ;)

reef1235

08-10-2003, 16:28

Check out Siaga's, There pretty inexpensive and their autoloaders, gass operated, detachable mag(5 rd), they come in variors barrel legnths, 18" being the shortest, I bought one last year payed $300 brand new,12 ga. chamberd for 3" mags, Shoots great, never jams, very nice gun for the price. check them out before you buy a pump.

DocWagon

08-11-2003, 18:36

The shops around here sell the Saigas very quickly, except the .410. I've got a Mossberg 500 12 guage, personally. Its easy and quick to swap barrels, in case you want a multi-purpose gun instead of just a defense gun. I've got a rifled ported barrel with cantilever scope mount and a 24" vent rib ported barrel, but 18" barrels are plentiful if you wanted the shorter "defense" barrel. The best feature for the Mossberg is the safety location. I love having the thumb safety that is ambidextrous and easy to see.

I like the Fabarms FP6 as well, I've handled them but never owned one. I think it would make an excellent defense gun, as the weight and handling characteristics are near ideal for me. They come in 20" and 14" barrels, and probably some in between. Your mileage may vary.

csapor

08-15-2003, 11:08

I firmly do not beleive there is a need for an expensive, loaded with options
shotgun for self defense. Just any --reliable-- firearm. Even a .22

For a "self defense" shotgun, all you need is any pump action shotgun that:
-is relatively short so its not cumbersome
-can accept 3" shells
-buckshot, not slugs

OR:
Any 16ga. semi or pump, decent capacity.
Now you can slap the trigger all you want and not bother with that
pesky recoil.

My favorite: Any shotgun with a life size picture of O.J. or Rosie Odonnel
on the business end of the barrel! Guaranteed to work.

Think about it. :blink:

Old Judge Creek

09-17-2003, 09:19

So much angst :blink:

In my 60 years I have collected a whole mess o' shotguns and about twice as many opinions.

Someone earlier in this thread commented about reliability, having put nearly 500 rounds through a gun. I start to consider a shotgun reliable after about 5 or 6 thousand rounds. If you want to get good with a shotgun, you'd better practice with it. Find a shooting game (like cowboy action shooting, for instance) and spend a few years shooting and reloading on the clock.

Indeed, shotguns are loud in close quarters - but no louder than a 357, or 40, or 44, or 45. And 22man's right about the pattern size at across-the-room distances. And long tubed, hi-cap, combat shotguns have a place... and a purpose, but not in my milieu. Oh, yeah, they "look bad" too. Is there a 'to hit' bonus for guns that look cool, or bad? Remember how frightening Inspector Clouseau was when he shouted "Hyaah!" and made pseudo-karate moves with his hands?

1) I have NO intention of getting into a tactical shotgun fight. The shotgun is a great tool but the ammunition is too short ranged, too bulky, and too weighty for me to consider as a bug out weapon. As an indoor defensive weapon and as a "put small game on the table tool" - nothing's better.

2) Having been there - done that I have no intention of playing "oooh, isn't the sound of the action working scar-r-r-r-r-ry?" If you're in a situation where you need a firearm, you might want to shout "Boo!" as you work the action -yeah, that'll scare the bejezzis out of the bad guy. And perhaps your surviving family will think nice things about you.

3) "My" defensive shotgun is a Stoeger 20" double barreled Coach Gun. It's much easier to wield in close quarters than a M97 Winchester with a short barrel, or for that matter, any other shotgun I know of; it's reliable, accurate and I can "do the drill" in my sleep.

swill269

09-17-2003, 10:28

:rolleyes:
i have not seen a post good or bad about winchester 1200 defender. this is what i have for home defence (7rnds, 2-3/4" # 4)and heavy brush hunting (3" rifled slugs).
i bought it new years ago, never had a prob with it. i don't use i though, mostly sits on gaurd in the bedroom. i clean it and fondle it 'bout every other month or so just to stay familiar with it.
i have no idea what kind of reliability to expect from it and if i don't have reliabilty, i don't have security.
any opinions on this weapon. it was cheap.
:unsure:

Old Judge Creek

09-17-2003, 10:58

Swill, please don't take this a knock on your 1200 or any shotgun for that matter:

Within the last week or so I was reading an article on defensive shotguns: the statement was made that guns with the longer magazine tubes were generically more trouble-prone. I do NOT know the truth of this statement, but I would like to hear some discourse from those who have had real experience with the genre. (And anyone who thinks a gun is reliable because it fired 100 rounds without a problem, or who likes a gun because it "looks bad" or thinks action noises are going to scare a bad guy - is NOT anyone whose opinion I would respect.)

Back to your question though:
I never "go cheap" on anything that I might be betting my life on.

swill269

09-17-2003, 11:34

:unsure:
yeah, oldjudgecreek it was by dumb luck i got on this forum. :P i learned the first day here that my mini 14 was illegal. :( there is a dialogue trail here in the forum documenting my ordeal. :blink: it was a nice experience getting the help and direction to accomplish my goals and become LEGAL again. :D
that is why i am curious about my choice of home defence weapon. <_< if my weapon is a reliable one then the skill to use it is up to me. :)
if the weapon has faults or problems i would like to remedy that now. the knowledge would enhance my skill :lol: :lol: :lol:
THANX!

DocWagon

09-17-2003, 15:13

I've gotten more practice in with the Mossberg, and I'm sticking with it. I'd considered a tactial Fabarms deal, but decided to stay with the Mossy for two major reasons.

1) I already own it and am familiar with it. It's proven its reliability, in patterns exceptionally well (at 10 yards with an open choke and 00 buck, the pattern is about fist sized and extremely close to a perfect circle.

2) It is, at heart, a "sporting" gun. In the event that I do have to fire it in self-defense, the weapon is obviously going to be evidence. A shotgun that appears in the closet of many of the jurors couldn't hurt your chances. The all blackened chrome and polymer "assualt shotgun" could be used against you by the unsavory lawyer who may be your prosecutor. Yeah, I know, better to be judged than carried, but the fact is if you're trotted off to prison you've screwed yourself and your family. Your in captivity, however unjustly, and they are without your wages or companionship. Agree or not, but I consider the possible perceptions of my self defense tools.

My neighbor's brother, SWAT team member, said something recently I won't forget. A shotgun's capacity is how many ever rounds you can carry. Constantly feed the gun. If you run dry, you weren't paying attention or your in such deep (expletive) you won't have time to reload and you're going to a backup weapon anyway. Take it for what its worth, but I don't feel underarmed because my shotgun holds "only" 6 rounds. If I were a professional on an entry team, I'd pony up the money for an entry gun with an integral light, heartbeat detector, and a "stun" setting, but for defense, I'll stick with my "sporter."

Oh, and great post Judge. I'd say a double barrel is a solid choice for defense, as well, especially since you sound like you are intimately familiar with it. None of my business, really, but are you actually a judge?

Old Judge Creek

09-18-2003, 08:45

DocWagon, you asked:
None of my business, really, but are you actually a judge?

In Cowboy Action Shooting every competitor must have an Old West type alias and it must be unique (there is only ONE Wyatt Earp). The alias becomes your Cowboy name and as you play the sport, you “become” that alias to all the friends you make. They come to know Cactus Pete very well indeed but haven't a CLUE who Garrison J. Peabody III is. It does get weird when SASS cowboys have to interact with other SASS cowboys in the "real world". Identity crises abound.

Geographically I live in Coyote Valley, along Coyote Creek and sit in the yard of an evening listening to the coyotes howl at one another… duuuh, I registered as Coyote Creek Mike and, as was the very real Turkey Creek Jack Johnson, I was called Creek by one and all until my "past " quickly caught up with me.

I've been reloading my own ammo since the mid 1950s and I've been a Certified Firearms Instructor for 20-some-odd years. Just because of that, ol Creek got railroaded into being the range safety officer (Sheriff) for the local club.

I was Faultline's Sheriff for several years. One night at a club meetin' Hank Dodge and Snapshot Katie allowed as how they were gettin' hitched in an authentic 1880s Old West wedding in Roaring Camp - EVERYONE would have to be wearing period clothes (Bride and Groom’s parents too). Their biggest problem was they couldn't find anyone with the appropriate attire willing to perform the wedding at such a remote location. Joking, I told them I’d be happy to do the ceremony, but Sheriffs don’t marry folks, that was a Judge’s job. Long story shortened, I ended up going down to the courthouse and actually getting sworn in (for real) as a Deputy Commissioner of Civil Marriage.

At the rehearsal, the wedding coordinator referred to me twice as The Minister. I told her I wasn’t a minister and she thereafter referred to me as The Judge. Following the neatest wedding ceremony I ever saw, the wedding party boarded the train and rode to the reception on a real 1880s steam train pulled through giant Redwoods by a narrow-gauge 2 truck shay locomotive. At the reception the newlyweds gifted me with a beautiful pocket watch inscribed to “Old Judge Creek”. My cowboy personna was forever changed.

During the week following the wedding, I changed my registered alias and thus officially became Old Judge Creek – The Marrying Judge of Roaring Camp

And I must confess, I like being called Judge a lot more than Sheriff.

Now........ ain'tcha sorry ya asked ?

swill269

09-18-2003, 09:26

;)
neat story old "Judge" creek. :)
was that wedding filmed for tv? i saw something on a shooting program about cowboy games and they featured a full blown western wedding.
i would like to get into the cowboy games but i would just about have to restock my whole armory. i have a ruger new blackhawk in 45 LC and i'm not sure it is acceptable.
the cowboy games sure have done a lot to up the population of gun owners too.
Great Job! :cool: :usa: :beer:

Old Judge Creek

09-18-2003, 10:04

Swill,
this is getting "off-topic-er" and more "off-topic-er" but:

Your Ruger 45 Colt Blackhawk is very acceptable in SASS. It would be in the Modern class because if it's adjustable sights, but rest assured you'll see lot's of other folks shooting the same gun.

FWIW, my son shoots a Ruger Blackhawk 357, a Marlin Cowboy 357 rifle, a Norinco shotgun and a Cabelas cap & ball revolver for his 2nd pistol.

swill269

09-18-2003, 10:24

:rolleyes:
judge, would an old double barreled, rabbit eared shotgun with firing pins(not caps) be acceptable. i had an old stevens mod 911a and gave it to my brother-in-law. i still have a 94b. i like the old rabbit ears w/20" barrels. :D
THANX!
:cool:

Old Judge Creek

09-18-2003, 10:51

Would it?

Take it out there - you'll probably get 20 compliments and 10 offers to buy it.... LOL !

A 20" rabbit-earred double is about as "cowboy-cool" as you can get.

BTW: the term Rabbit-Earred reveals you as a southerner (as I originally am). Out this way them's "mule-earred"..... dumb westerners don''t know jack 'bout scatter guns.

swill269

09-18-2003, 11:04

;)
what kind of trade value do think i might get for a win. 1200 defender, or should i just try to sell it out right and buy a MULE eared shotgun. :( yeah, i'm from the south but i love the desert. :cool: have been to az, nm and nevada deserts, loved it so much i got plans from a magazine to build an earth home in a butte. i may get there some day if the ole 401k will hold out. :eek:
what's the name of your ranch again, HEAVEN? ;)
:cool:

DocWagon

09-18-2003, 12:04

Now........ ain'tcha sorry ya asked ?

What, are you kidding? That's one of the best stories I've heard. I wish I could have heard it over a beer and in person, frankly. Very cool.

I really want to get into CAS, but the cost has kept me out so far. I don't own any suitable firearms. I've still got a $100 gift certificate for Cabela's, thanks to a prize from work, and have been thinking about getting one of their cap-n-ball revolvers. There are several shoots in my area I could attend, and one is even mounted, though I no longer own any horses.

Maybe next year, once I'm back out of full-time school and work, I'll finally take it up.

mr.mossyoak

09-21-2003, 12:29

i think i would like the Stoeger double barrel with some double 00 buck in it

Aries68

09-25-2003, 19:26

I have been seriously thinking about buying a Stoeger Silverado Coach gun. Do ya'll really think it would be a good choice for home defense using 00 buck?

christhejunglist

10-23-2003, 08:51

i myself prefer my winchester 1400 w/ 18.5 inch barrel w/folding stock you don't need to have 6+ rounds loaded 4 home protection.I think personaily 3 or 4 non-leathel rubber or salt in a semi-auto will do the trick. the bad part of having a pump you can't shoot sideways running for cover or more than 1+ rounds one handed. just look out for dead shell shots(keep your semi-auto clean and change ammo every six months)
i have had the chance to fire both a 870 and 500 mossberg bullpup. both are fun guns
both have there problems...
870 very good on recoil, lots of upgrades,and still used in the feild by police, but sucks because you have to take you hand off the trigger to extract shell by unlocking the pump located by trigger
mossbreg 500 lots of upgrades, and cheaper than most shotguns, but i noticed that alot of things that can go wrong like the shell extraction piece always were down fast and for some reason if sheel doesn't go in right may lock up on you( don't think about droping this gun while loaded has a problem of going off by it's self if not carfuly handled)
i have debated with my gun guru friends and the gun store's i have visited over the years if any home needs protection go semi-auto
here are some shot guns to look for...
saiga 12 ga. (looks like an AK)
winchester 1400
sears and roebuck 300 (very cheap if you could find them)
here a some the do both if not sure what to buy
s.p.a.s. 12 ga.
beneli (any of there semi-auto/ pump shot guns)
these are some of many that i would recommend to anyone looking for that home protection that will be relieable in the end
thanx for the time to read this

stengun315

10-23-2003, 17:53

My old Winchester Model 12, 18in barrel, 2 high base 6's followed by 3 no. 4 buck. Granted it only has a single slide bar, but I have never had it bind and you wont find a slicker action.

Dogman1

11-13-2003, 08:45

Benelli

Dogman1

11-13-2003, 14:30

311R

boogeyman

12-03-2003, 15:21

Very nice Dogman!

22870magpump

02-05-2005, 02:15

870pump

swill269

02-05-2005, 08:59

:o
dogman1,

i have a 311A. :beer:
:cool:

darjeeling

02-06-2005, 09:42

Well, well well! I have a 311A at home as well.

R&R.45

03-16-2005, 07:36

Do you answer the door, take out pets or trash with shotgun in hand? Do you mow the lawn, get the newspaper with shotgun at the ready? Do you carry it back and forth to your vehicle? you are 4x as likely to be attacked while away from home, you know. So why bother with the shotgun? Until shtf, the pistol is where it's at for self defense. After shtf, you need an autorifle, not a shotgun. Time and money spent on the shotgun can't be spent on the far more likely to be needed (and appropriate) hand to hand and pistol training.

It's simply BS to say that the pistol is just for shooting your way to your rifle. You wont GET to your rifle, plain and simple. Either you solve the problem with your pistol, or you lose, period. The better pistol loads hit PLENTY hard. You need electronic earmuffs with the shotgun, too, for indoor firing.

Do you have a CLUE how short a range the buckshot blast wont relilably hit a cover user's head? As close as 50 ft with some loads and barrels. Do you have a clue how small the pattern spread is at typical home defens ranges (ie, 10 ft or less from the muzzle)? Do you know how to grapple and keep someone from taking that shotgun from you? Do yu know how to handle corners, doors, looking under beds or behind clothes hanging in a closet? Ever fire that 12 ga with just one hand? What if you have to open a door, use a light, crawl, go thru a window, comfort a child, use a telephone while holding a man for the cops?

would you settle for a 2 shot pistol or rifle? why settle for a double barrel shotgun, then? You can easily miss with a shotgun, at the sub 10 ft ranges likely in the home. At 6 ft or so, an open choked barrel wont put much, if any of a #6 birdshot load thru a heavy winter coat and the sternum. stick to no smaller pellets than #4 buckshot, or you are likely to regret it.

BigUglyOne

03-19-2005, 17:10

At 6 ft or so, an open choked barrel wont put much, if any of a #6 birdshot load thru a heavy winter coat and the sternum. stick to no smaller pellets than #4 buckshot, or you are likely to regret it.

You are clueless, at 6 feet it will blow a hole through your torso I could put my hand through, I don't care if you are wearing biker leather.

Your unknowledgeable advice will end up getting someone killed if they listen to you.

You need electronic earmuffs with the shotgun, too, for indoor firing.

I shoot mine indoors all the time, you don't need them.