Barrel Shortening

[Macman10]

Who can cut my bbl. back to 18" to lessen "whipping action" has anyone had this done?:2guns:

[Savary]

This place shortens barrels down to 16.25 for $145.
Includes choat flash supressor converted to a muzzle
brake and silver soldered in place.
Accuracy is enhanced. There was a write up recently
in a gun magazine on a rilfe shortened by these guys.
They liked it.
http://www.drccustomgunsights.com/

[Macman10]

Thanks:ar15:

[Mike223]

I have seen a few mini's with a shortened barrel and was wondering what the purpose was. I can see how this would reduce the barrel whip, but what happens to your velocity and other factors that a longer barrel gives you?

[Grinch]

Check out the "About Us And Our Services " section at the link posted above for more info.

[cajungeo]

Ya know i'd answer macman's question, but if ya notice the date he posted, I kind of think he's been out of town for a while. For what its worth my mini came from the factory with a 18" barrel.

[Satan2655]

LOL!

cajungeo, you never cease to crack me up!

[goodorbit]

So say you have access to a machinist's lathe, what's involved in just wacking one off at say 16.5"? Anybody done this? I know there's an issue with a square cut, any other tricks?

[rezman]

Hey Goodorbit,
I've got a mini standard that I cut the barrel back on and installed a choate ar style birdcage flash hider on. No problem, just cut behind factory sight, a good quality hacksaw blade makes this much easier, square up the cut with a mill file and mount new sight with the set screw, after you make sure the sight is straight up, drill and install the new roll pin. There were pretty clear instructions with the new flashhider. I like the new carbine length, makes a real handy package with the BC folder. BTW, mines a preban.

:ar15:

PS: you don't even have to recrown if you are installing a muzzle device that will protect the shortened barrel.

[One shot]

I perfer to use my lathe for this type of work, but here is the propper prcess if you do not have one,
1, Locate area to be cut.
2, Mark area and make your cut with a good quality hack saw.
3, square up the cut the best you can with a good mill file.
4, Make a muzzle lapp using a 1/8 inch brass ball and a six inch piece of 1/4 inch drill rod. Drill a 1/8 inch hole half way through the brass ball. Solder end of drill rod in to hole in the brass ball.
5, coat brass ball with lapping compound.
6, set brass ball on bore opening and rotate handle between your hands.
7, remove brass ball and clean compound off muzzle.
8, Check the end of the bore for the progress of the lapping.
9, Once you have a slight radius cut for the entire bore edge you are done.
This radius cut will help ensure a true bullet exit from the bore.

[goodorbit]

Thanks for the info-
I think I get it now. :rolleyes: DUH!

I'm guessing that with a lathe you just cut a 1/16 Radius bevel at the tip of the rifeling.

Still looking for the project rifle... will let you know how it all "turns" out.

[bushwack]

goodorbit---One shot has it down pretty good. The really important thing it to try to get the cut as square as possible with a fine mill file. Instead of a brass ball let me introduce you to the plain brass round headed wood screw. Get a brass screw & run it into a good straight piece of steel tubing. Use some good old "Clover" brand valve grinding compound or whatever brand your local auto parts store will sell & have at it. This procedure will make the benchrest people gasp but hey, this is a Mini we're talking about.

Good luck
Bushwack

[One shot]

Bushwack has a vary good idea and one that I am going to file away in memory. I would have never have thought of using a brass screw. Befor buying my lathe I used the above methode a lot and hade vary good results. I still have an old 8mm Mauser that I did this on and the thing will shoot 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards.

[Paul S.]

Originally posted by rezman
Hey Goodorbit,
I've got a mini standard that I cut the barrel back on and installed a choate ar style birdcage flash hider on. No problem, just cut behind factory sight, a good quality hacksaw blade makes this much easier, square up the cut with a mill file and mount new sight with the set screw, after you make sure the sight is straight up, drill and install the new roll pin. There were pretty clear instructions with the new flashhider. I like the new carbine length, makes a real handy package with the BC folder. BTW, mines a preban.

:ar15:

PS: you don't even have to recrown if you are installing a muzzle device that will protect the shortened barrel.

So if I have a HK-style flash hider I don't have to crown the barrel after cutting it?

[bushwack]

Paul S---The barrel has to be crowned no matter what you hang on the end of the barrel. The whole idea behind crowning the barrel is to square the muzzle with the bore so the bullet exits the lands & grooves evenly. A muzzle that's not square will tend to tip the bullet as it exits & it doesn't take much. You can buy a hand operated piloted reamer from Brownells that will cut the muzzle square.

Good luck
Bushwack

[Brad D.]

Hi Bushwack,

Not to nitpick, but – as I understand it, the purpose of a crown is to protect a perfectly square barrel end. If a barrel end is cut square and something else is used to protect it (e.g., flash hider or muzzle brake) then a crown is not necessary. And as rezman states above, we’re talking about Mini-14s here, not a target rifle, so I wouldn’t get too worried about the crown on a factory Mini-14 barrel.

Brad D.

[bushwack]

I used the wrong term, instead of getting a crowning cutter you'd need a muzzle facing cutter. This is used to put the perfect 90° face on the end of the barrel. Again the face must be cut 90° to the bore. As to it being a Mini-14 & not a target rifle, the way I look at it is why do a poor job on a barrel that already has problems?

Just my 2¢
Bushwack

[Brad D.]

I agree, Bushwack. If you're going to do a job, do it right. I plan to whack off a substantial hunk of my Mini-14's barrel and permanently attach a FH to meet rifle/barrel minimum OAL criteria. When I do so, I'll make sure the muzzle face is square, and I'll probably be obsessive about it, too -- that's my nature. For those who don't understand this crowning/muzzle facing business, though, I thought I'd point out that it's not necessary to worry over this stuff too much with a stock Mini-14, given it's inherent inaccuracy.

Good shooting,

Brad D. in WY

[goodorbit]

Brad-
Being a bit obsessive myself, I'll take the "every little bit counts" route. Seriously, I appreciate you guys spelling out stuff like this fot thous of us just learning.

So what do you guys reccomend as the best/easiest "permanent" method of attaching? Silver solder is what I'm most familiar with. Arc welding seems like a bad choice.

[bushwack]

goodorbit---Silver solder is the way I'd go. It's easy & tough enough for the application.

Good luck
Bushwack

[Brad D.]

Silver solder is legal, too, for permanently attaching a muzzle device from a BATF point of view.

Goodorbit -- if, as you state in your earlier post, you're going to cut your barrel to 16.5 inches, you don't need to permanently attach your muzzle brake/flash hider. You're OK from a minimum OAL standpoint (16 inches is the minimum rifle barrel length). Depending on the device you use, you can do something as simple as drilling the barrel for the front sight mounting pin as rezman describes in his post above. I mentioned permanently attaching a FH in my post because I plan to cut my barrel as short as possible, somewhere in the neighborhood of 14.5 inches ala an M-4 carbine. I just need to make sure I maintain minimum OAL and barrel length while doing it.

Good luck,

Brad

[XWind]

I read somewhere that if you take an old PC mouse ball and remove the rubber coating you can use the now metal ball with valve grinding compound to get very close to an 11 degree crown bevel.

Has anyone else heard of this 'technique'? Does it work?

Also, how do you determine the 'squareness' of the cut if you shorten the barrel? A carpenters sqaure? My barrel tip is so banged up due to a previous owner taking a file to it in order to make some type (type unknown) of flash suppressor on it.

I'm realling thinking about going with an HBAR and no suppressor / brake. The muzzle damage aside, this 184 series probably has enough rounds through it warrant a new barrel. I just need to find a local smith that can get a HBAR to fit into my Choate folder. Either bedded or floated.

The main use for this rifle is for competetion in my range's Action Rifle competitions. Longest shots are 100 yds and usually at 6" targets.

I have an M1A that easily shoots sub moa that I use for Service Rifle High Power events. This satisfies my need for an accurate long /short range rifle. I've been known to shoot my M1A for Action Rifle due to my frustration with the lack of accuracy of my Mini.

I am determined to suppress the bad mouthing that always begins when I break out my Mini-14 to shoot the match with. I do not like ARs and doubt I ever will.

It would do my aging heart wonders to outshoot all those black rifles with my lowly Mini.

This is my goal and it looks like I'm in the right place.

A couple of questions:

Has anyone tried the epoxied on, canti-lever type barrel stabilizer? Results?

Has anyone found that certain flash hiders / supressors/brakes cause more inconsitencies than they fix?

I don't believe I've ever seen a 'Match Rifle' (bolt action) in a High power event that had anything on the end of the barrel. That makes me wonder even more if these devices are worthwhile. Although my M1A has a NM supresor on it and is mandatory to stay in the Service Rifle class.

I'll learn how to use the 'Search' feature of this site soon so I don't annoy people with questions that were answered last week / month / year. Until then all feedback is welcome.

Good Luck With Your Minis,
XWind
:sniper:

[bushwack]

XWind---I have cut my barrel to 14.5" & I bought a 90 degree facing cutter & pilot from Brownells to square the muzzle to the bore. After squaring with the cutter find a brass screw with a round head about 3/8" diameter & chuck it in a hand drill. Use very fine lapping compound on the brass screw head & lap the muzzle just enough to brake the sharp edges of the bore. For lapping compound try a mixture of Comet cleanser & gun oil, make a thin paste. This will work if you install a muzzlebrake. If you are leaving the muzzle bare you should also buy an 11 degree crowning tool which you would use after the facing cutter. Sorry I've never heard of the mouse ball thing but I can't imagine how long it'd take to hand lap an 11 degree crown. It sounds like a winter project to me.

Good luck
Bushwack

[cajungeo]

Here is a good description of the crowns purposes, and what it consists of.

As the bullet exits the barrel, the bullet's base should leave each one of the lands at the exact same time. If the barrel crown in not uniform or has been worn or dented, the base of the bullet will be displaced to the side when it exits. With a damaged or non-uniform crown, good accuracy is not possible.

http://riflestocks.tripod.com/targetcrown.html
A couple of questions:

Has anyone tried the epoxied on, canti-lever type barrel stabilizer? Results? Yes, varied. Use search

Has anyone found that certain flash hiders / supressors/brakes cause more inconsitencies than they fix? No. We've had 2 that reported no diff, everyone else post accuracy is much improved with the muzzle brake.

I don't believe I've ever seen a 'Match Rifle' (bolt action) in a High power event that had anything on the end of the barrel. That makes me wonder even more if these devices are worthwhile. Although my M1A has a NM supresor on it and is mandatory to stay in the Service Rifle class. The mini barrel is thin and flimsy, so Harmonic vibration is amplified, and inconsistant. The muzzle brake dampens the Harmonic vibration, and makes it more consistant. Use search for many posts on this subject.

I'll learn how to use the 'Search' feature of this site soon so I don't annoy people with questions that were answered last week / month / year. Until then all feedback is welcome.
Its easy. Click on the search button, upper right. Enter key words, many posts will come up on your subject, with your key words, in red.

[maddog7]

DRC customized my Mini-14. If you are looking for someone to do the work (cut the barrel, trigger job, muzzle brake and ghost site) I would recommend DRC.

[cajungeo]

We have only had good posts on DRC custom gun.

[XWind]

Thanks for all the positive comments. Excuse my ignorance but I did a search on DRC and all I could find is:

David R. Chicoine
Gastonia, North Carolina 28052

A quick glance at his site indicates he is a retired gunsmith that takes on special projects, primarily on pre-1900 rifles.

If this is the right place great, if not can someone point me to him?

Also, I'm interested in reading that many have been successful using the weight of a muzzle brake/flasj suppressor with or without a shortened barrel as an aid to accuracy. I always thought that the inconsistent gas dispersion on an inexpensive brake/suppressor would cause an inconsistent bullet launch.
I guess the weight and reduction of barrel whip offsets any problem induced by the addition of the brake/suprresor.

Thanks again and I'll check back as soon as time permits.

XWind

[cajungeo]

X-Wind, when I said do a search, I ment, in this forum, not the internet.

I believe this is the link. http://www.drccustomgunsights.com/TOCFrame.htm

These people also do good work. http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/mini_14_...ccessories.html (http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/mini_14_30_accessories.html)

I can't afford either, so I do my most of my own stuff.