AR-15 Talk AR-15 General Interest

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Old 06-26-2012, 21:22   #1
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What to do?

About a year ago I bought a RRA stripped lower, thinking I would build an AR. I haven't done anything with it, and frankly am not a real fan of AR's (sorry). At least not in stock fashion.

For example I do not like the "T" handle to pull the bolt back.
I do not like the "twang" from the recoil spring (or whatever it's called)
and the LAST thing I need is another 223.

PLEASE do not take this as a post of slamming the AR. They great rifles in their own right, but just not exactly my cup of tea.

That said, I hate the thought of losing money on trading it off, I paid $179 for it and would most likely get a little more than half back on trade in.

I have thought about getting a rimfire upper, since I do need a decent 22lr, but the ones people write about that are very reliable, are $400 plus. I am retired and funds are not nearly as available as when I was working, so ANYTHING I do with it, would be in stages.

I had thought of using the lower somehow as a lower for a "tube" type of bolt rifle, but not sure if that is even a possibility.

I have other semi auto 223's so I really do not want to build an AR version, just because, but something of considerably more stopping power might be good. Something that would double as hunting/defense would be better. I know a bit about the 6.8 SPC, and the 6.5 Grendel, and those are interesting, but I am afraid I would be getting into $$$ ranges I cannot reach.

I have seen uppers that have a bolt on the left side (right hand receiver) that seems to replace the T handle, I like that better.

I am open for suggestions. Build something piecemeal or sell it off.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:24   #2
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well, as far as the "twang" from that spring goe's, I have seen buffer shocks that are used to replace them. I don't know if anyone in here has any experience with them. I have read somewhere I think, that sometimes they may possibly be used to slow down the cyclic rate of fire in auto's,but I am not sure. I also have misplaced my little catalog, so I don't know how much it cost. You may look at the bushmaster or armalite catalog, or maybe thier online store, see if they have info. ( if ) you decide to keep it.
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Old 06-27-2012, 06:08   #3
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Build a 7.62x39 rifle for it. More stopping power than the 5.56, ammo is fairly cheap (cheaper if you want corrosive surplus ammo) and it is a fun round to shoot. Plus if you hunt, there are some nice rounds available that are very accurate for this package, namely the Hornady SST for around $.50 or so per round.

SurplusAmmo dot com has a 7.62x39 barrel right now for $120, not bad at all. Take your time with the build and shop around for sales and stuff since you will piecemeal it together and you can do this or another caliber build for a decent price. I only suggest the 7.62x39 because it is a fun and cheap round, or you could place a S&W M&P 5.45x39 upper on the lower for $500 from CDNN. Another cheap and fun round to plink with. Hornady makes V-max ammo for it and there are lots of cheap plinking ammo, again not talking about corrosive ammo. Wolf, Bear, Tulammo etc all make cheap rounds for plinking and some HP for varmit or whatever you want. Just another alternative for you.

As for the twang, get a carbine buttstock assembly with the buffer, spring, buffer tube and stock and that should eliminate the twang. I recommend a Spikes St-t2 buffer.

TG
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Old 06-27-2012, 08:58   #4
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I thought I read the AR had major feeding issues with the 7.62 ammo? No?
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:31   #5
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With the older Cproducts magazines, issues were more common than non-issues. So far with my AR-stoner and ASC magazines for both 5.45x39 and 7.62x39, I have had no issues that were magazine caused. It's only been a few hundred down each barrel, but still, it is good enough for me.

TG
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:01   #6
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Well, alright. I SUPPOSE you can give it to me, since you don't want it.

Just playing! There are WAY too many choices out there for the AR-style receiver. I'm sure you'll think of something. Personally, I like TacticalGenius's suggestion. 7.62 millimeter is where it's at!

<< & THAT is kinda creepy...

Last edited by focal_point; 06-27-2012 at 11:05. Reason: Cuz I'm and idiot and I didn't read the forum right before posting...
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Old 06-27-2012, 18:17   #7
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Originally Posted by star View Post
If nothing else hang on to it......depending on the winds of washington it may be worth a lot more.
The only thing wrong with that idea, is IF the current white house resident stays, it won't be just a matter of not buying them, you will ONLY be able to sell them to a class III FFL. Thats exactly what happened here in Ca, and it will happen all over, if the current freight train keeps rolling.

I will either build something or sell it, I have decided that much.
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Old 06-29-2012, 00:30   #8
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Originally Posted by star View Post
Sadly I think you are right....The new plan will be a flat out ban with no grandfather options.
Well after todays Supreme Court ruling, I predict, that if the wrong group of politicians get the chance, their new line od attack, will be to TAX firearm ownership into history. I mean come on guns cause injuries and they require medical treatment, so a massive gun tax will help cover that cost......see where they will go with this?
the only question is, will it be a congressional law or another Executive order?
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:16   #9
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I predict, that if the wrong group of politicians get the chance, their new line od attack, will be to TAX firearm ownership into history.
Good point. That is what they are doing with cigarettes and gasoline. They think that people will stop buying them if the price gets too high and it probably does work for some people. I was still smoking when cigarettes got to $4 per pack but finally quit more for health reasons than anything else.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:10   #10
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Originally Posted by star View Post
I would like to see a bill that made you pay a penalty....errh I mean tax for not having a gun in your home.
Using the same logic that was just up held; the government says you must own a firearm for the common good or common defense. IF you do not then you pay a TAX to the government to help cover defense cost. Since now we can tax you under the commerce clause for lack of commerce
Wonder how they would feel about that bill…..no not really.

Ohhhhhhh! I like that idea! Do you think you'll get a Tax Credit for owning multiple guns? The Gun Tax Credit... you only qualify until the weapon is 17 years old!
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:48   #11
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RRA lower

Well you could take it to an engraver and have "GOVERNMENT" cut in the side and sell it for $500 like so many others are doing. I have even seen GOVERMENT. If you were dishonest. Or you could add the appropriate RRA parts and have one of the legends in AR's. Or you could add a DSA upper for under $300 and have a good shooter worth about $650. Last but not least you could slowly buy the rest of the parts over the next couple of years while you can get them. I am as liberal as I can be and I can see an end to the easy access to the weapons we now enjoy. If you don't like the weather, (current prices), wait and it will change. If you don't believe me just try to buy a lower from RRA right now. They are not for sell at any price and that is what causes an item to appreciate. A bunch of dummies like me hacking at lowers is bad for the image of a custom rifle builder. Colt learned that many years ago.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:25   #12
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Well i have decided. You folks have given good honest opinions and I highly respect them, but after SERIOUS consideration (I had it in the truck once to trade it in) I have decided to sell it outright. I have way too many 223 caliber rifles anyway, and some have only about 20 rds each through them. I am not a collector and IF some of the current bills up for vote pass, I will be out of luck for building one, unless I mde it a true permanant magazine or use that ugly non-pistolgrip stock (cant recall the name).

So my next question, I suppose, is to sell on consignment or outright. Consignment rates locally are 20%.
should I list here? If so, whata an honest price. No desire to gouge anyone, buy would like every $$ I can get. I realize I would have to ship to an FFL that accepts from a non FFL.

This is not a FS listing, will post in propper section if I list here. Just looking for advice.
thanks guys, i really did strongly consider all your advice against all MY circumstances.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:10   #13
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Do you have some type of paper/website for people to sell stuff locally? In WA we had the "little nickel" and here in Maine we have "Uncle Henry's". You could try that, I just sold a Stag Lower through Uncle Henry's. Or selling on these sites, you could do a local FTF sale too. Going that route, you should be able to sell and get a pretty good deal. Unless Cali doesn't allow FTF sales... Either way, is the lower complete (fire control group, buffer tube, stock) or is it stripped? If it is stripped, and with RRA seeming to think they command higher prices for their stuff, I would probably assume around $125, more if it has the trigger and stock.

If you don't want the trouble of selling yourself to someone possibly in another state, then consignment would be the way to go. If you really want every dollar you can get from the sale, sell it here and on other sites, I know Calguns would be a good one. Bear in mind, all FFLs are required to accept firearms only from other FFLs. (Not to say it doesn't happen that you can ship directly to an FFL), but just be cautious. You will have to pay an FFL transfer and shipping if you go from FFL to FFL. Hope this helps.

TG
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:21   #14
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Originally Posted by TacticalGenius View Post
Do you have some type of paper/website for people to sell stuff locally? In WA we had the "little nickel" and here in Maine we have "Uncle Henry's". You could try that, I just sold a Stag Lower through Uncle Henry's. Or selling on these sites, you could do a local FTF sale too. Going that route, you should be able to sell and get a pretty good deal. Unless Cali doesn't allow FTF sales... Either way, is the lower complete (fire control group, buffer tube, stock) or is it stripped? If it is stripped, and with RRA seeming to think they command higher prices for their stuff, I would probably assume around $125, more if it has the trigger and stock.

If you don't want the trouble of selling yourself to someone possibly in another state, then consignment would be the way to go. If you really want every dollar you can get from the sale, sell it here and on other sites, I know Calguns would be a good one. Bear in mind, all FFLs are required to accept firearms only from other FFLs. (Not to say it doesn't happen that you can ship directly to an FFL), but just be cautious. You will have to pay an FFL transfer and shipping if you go from FFL to FFL. Hope this helps.

TG
Is that new? FFL to FFL? I have sold guns out of state in the past, not a prob, but it's been 5 or 6 yrs since I have done that, and No, FTF is not legal here. The FFL to FfL was true then for handguns only. One reason I am worried about the new ban law looming. It specifically OUTLAWS even owning or guying bullet buttons or having them installed. The law was voted down once before but back up again, so who knows with these libs?

Oh, the lower is stripped, I never even bought a lower kit for it cause I don't have much money anyway, and wasn't sure I wanted another 223. Too many negatives.
If the FFL to FFL is true, then for sure it will go to consignment. All we have around here is craigs list and they prohibit firearms.
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Old 07-02-2012, 14:12   #15
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The price I listed was $25 below new. Since yours is old, I figured it would be used or at least have some marks on it. So, for arguments sake, I listed it at $125. Brand new, around $150. Good luck.

TG
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Old 07-02-2012, 21:50   #16
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Originally Posted by TacticalGenius View Post
The price I listed was $25 below new. Since yours is old, I figured it would be used or at least have some marks on it. So, for arguments sake, I listed it at $125. Brand new, around $150. Good luck.

TG
Thanks
I listed it at $150, it has never even come out of the bag it came in, except to think about whether or not to sell it. ZERO marks on it. I still had the original receipt in the bag, so I took it back to the shop I bought it at. They were happy to get it, and he just used the original sticker, still attached, showing $179 and he lined through it and put the $150. They charge me 15% commission, so that's not bad, that will net me $127.50. I guess I have to live with it.
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Old 07-03-2012, 00:34   #17
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I will add the 300 AAC sure tempted me even though I am sure that 7.62x39 ammo is more available, for now, the ballistics of this little round do everything I wanted in heavier than 223 that I asked for. I will give this consignment 30 days to see if its meant to be. Maybe if it does not sell I will gather (slowly) the components for the little AAC round.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:44   #18
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The 7.62x39 will always be more available and cheaper. The 300 AAC is a boutique round that is trying to fill a niche that isn't there. A solution looking for a problem, in my opinion. Check out Wilsons comparisons of their 7.62x40 WT round with the x39 and the 300 AAC. The x39 edges the AAC out in FPS and FPE from the the same length barrel. Plus, if you want to hunt, Hornady makes 123gr SST rounds for the x39 and you can have those in the $.50/rd neighborhood, vs. $1/rd or higher for the AAC. Plus, there is so much x39 available for plinking (that isn't corrosive surplus) that it just makes sense to go with the x39.

7.62x40 WT - Wilson Combat

Just my $.02.

TG
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:04   #19
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Originally Posted by TacticalGenius View Post
The 7.62x39 will always be more available and cheaper. The 300 AAC is a boutique round that is trying to fill a niche that isn't there. A solution looking for a problem, in my opinion. Check out Wilsons comparisons of their 7.62x40 WT round with the x39 and the 300 AAC. The x39 edges the AAC out in FPS and FPE from the the same length barrel. Plus, if you want to hunt, Hornady makes 123gr SST rounds for the x39 and you can have those in the $.50/rd neighborhood, vs. $1/rd or higher for the AAC. Plus, there is so much x39 available for plinking (that isn't corrosive surplus) that it just makes sense to go with the x39.

7.62x40 WT - Wilson Combat

Just my $.02.

TG

Yes there ARE strong argument for the x39 no doubt, but I am not so sure I agree with the solution theory. Mind you never shot either, but in my thinking, the advantage is fewer parts changing to accommodate the AAC vs the x39, ie bolt, and magazine. Someone pointed out, here, I believe that the x39 requires the curved mags to feed properly, and apparently that is not so with the AAC. Those are good arguing points, at least to me.

I live in CA lead free hunting zones, so neither caliber is suitable for deer, since they barely would have the velocity to reliably open the 110gr TSX past 50yds, needed to hunt legally. That is where they drop below the 2000fps mark that is the Barnes min. For deer I'll stick to even the 223, but more than likely either 308 like last years or my '06. At least the 223 has a 50gr TSX that would have more than necessary velocity out past even 200yds.

For hunting my area, I have always considered 200 my min distance where a given catridge has to insure enough velocity for proper expansion. For good reason. Last years buck was shot at 175-180 (he was walking). One 150gr Nosler Etip through the ribs, stopped the walk.

No, for me it is simply wanting something with a little more impact energy than the 223 at 100-200yds. Really though, just another "fun" round. Kinda sick of the 223. Earlier considerations were rounds like the 6.8 and Grendel. Both are pricey, to me.

The x39 makes more sense in a lot of other ways too. At least the AAC ammo is starting off reasonably priced. I am seeing 11-12 for 20
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:22   #20
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Yeah, the x39 needs separate magazines as they won't feed from a 5.56 magazine. That is an advantage for the AAC. Too bad about the bullet selection for you, with having to hunt with lead free ammo. I do understand the logic, but it still seems a little much, a few rounds scattered through the massive wilderness can't affect the ecosystem irreparably.

The 6.8 is a great round, I had an AR with that round and loved it. Accurate, and has great knockdown power. The reason I ditched it was the ammo cost, no cheap supply, and in Maine, I would prefer a .308 for Moose.

Good luck with your venture!

TG
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:25   #21
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I read the WT article, and it looks to be better in many ways, and pretty easily made from 223 brass, but I wonder how it will fare in the production ammo department. There, the AAC has beat the Grendel and 6.8 hands down.

Although I have read many reports that the 6.8 spec II is a better hunting round, for longer ranges than either, but there is no comparison in ammo cost there.

The seeming easier loading of the subsonics for the AAC would seem to be an advantage for the military guys. The other disadvantage, for now, is Wilson is the only one (I believe) chambering for it, AND Wilson mentions modifying mags to make them work properly.

The magazine issue will make it a no-go (in my opinion) for military use. They look too much alike and would not be good to get them mixed up.

Whether or not other companies, and ammo companies join the wagon, will decide if if lives or dies.
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