AR-15 Talk AR-15 General Interest

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Old 06-08-2003, 11:14   #1
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[FONT=Courier]sSHere's a link to the 15 minute trigger-job. I've seen it referenced by a few folks but never posted the link to it.

Trigger-job



15-Minute Practical Trigger Job for the AR-15


Disclaimer: If you can't follow these directions successfully, you should not be playing with guns, especially AR-15's.

MATERIALS NEEDED

*Two Encyclopedias (you may sub two wood blocks, these are used to prop up the lower receiver)
*Small punch (for trigger/hammer pins)
*Large soft punch (3/8" Delrin rod or 3/8" wood dowel)
*Fine compound (#7 rubbing compound or Kit Scratch Out plastic polish)
*Wire Cutters
*Jeweler's Pliers (small pliers with no teeth in the jaws)

UNLOAD RIFLE
I had to say this, too. If you didn't know this, you should not be handling firearms.

SEPARATE UPPER RECEIVER FROM LOWER RECEIVER

(1) Remove the Safety (AR-15's have safeties, M16's have selectors) to allow easy removal of the Trigger later. Turn the Safety 45 degrees, halfway between SAFE and FIRE. Lay the Lower Receiver on its left side on the two encyclopedias (with the Web, they aren't good for anything else) or wood blocks, covered with soft rags such that the Lower Receiver is blocked up, and the Safety can be tapped out. Tap out the Safety with the large soft Delrin® punch or wood dowel.
With the Safety halfway between Safe and Fire it will pop out without having to remove the grip and detent. Don't worry about losing the Safety Detent, as it is captured by a groove in its hole.

(2) Polish the sear surfaces. With the Hammer in the up, or fired position, place a dab of polishing compound on the Hammer sear surface. To prevent the hammer from striking the receiver and possibly breaking the bolt stop, place a strip of leather, rubber or plastic in front of the hammer. Cock the Hammer and pull the Trigger. Repeat this 10 times. Put another dab of compound on the Hammer's sear surface, and cock and fire 10 more times.

(3) Now remove the Hammer first, then the Trigger and Disconnector, by tapping out their pins.

(4) Clean off every trace of compound from the Hammer and Trigger. Do it again to make sure. Clean any compound from inside the Lower Receiver.

(5) Clip the right leg of the Hammer Spring to a length of ¼".

NOTE: I find that if you take the remaining leg of the hammer spring and "tighten" it by slightly twisting it in the direction the spring is wound will greatly improve hammer speed and strike. This insures 100% primer ignition.

(6) Bend both legs of the Trigger Spring UP approximately 25 degrees as per the diagram. Use Jeweler's pliers for this. You do not want to leave marks in the spring. Smooth jawed pliers only!

(7) Reassemble the Trigger assembly with the Trigger Pin's outer retaining groove to the LEFT side of the Receiver.

(8) Install the Safety. A little trick....Hold the detent down with the end of a ¼" punch while tapping in the Safety from the other side.

(9) Install the Hammer. When installing the Hammer Pin it does not matter which side the outer groove is on. Notice that the left leg of the Hammer Spring engages the outer groove of the Trigger Pin, which you installed to be on the left side, retaining it in the Receiver. (You may also want to use "Anti-Walk Pins". If you use these, install these pins so that the E-clips are away from your body to prevent the E-clips from snagging on your clothing and possibly snapping off. If you are right-handed, the E-clips should be on the right. And if you are left-handed, the E-clips should be on the left.)

(10) Lubricate all the moving lower part, making sure you put a drop of oil on the Hammer sear surface.

Caution: DO NOT modify the Trigger Spring without also modifying the Hammer Spring as described.

I have used this trigger job method for about 10 years now, and have NEVER had it fail to pop the cap. Hammer Spring force is only reduced by about 25%, and there is still plenty of power to insure good ignition. There is still full sear engagement, so the trigger is not unsafe in any way.
This trigger job DOES result in a smoother, lighter trigger pull.
If you are unhappy with your results, at the most, you have only ruined two springs, three dollars worth of parts. This slight polishing with the compound will not harm your Hammer and Trigger in any way.
Good Shooting!
A Free Man
NOTE: THE WRITING ABOVE IS A COPY OF THE LINK. I DID NOT WRITE IT.

Another thing. If you lighten the hammer this will help. What I'm talking about is cutting off the overhanging head of the hammer, in back of the face. If you choose not to cut the whole thing off, you may want to reduce it's length a little. Over time the hammer will stike the disconnector,causing it to become deformed. This may cause the weapon to "double". When the hammer is cocked by the bolt and it strikes the disconnector, there is a race between the hammer spring trying to follow the bolt and the disconnector spring trying to grab the hammer. Does that make any sense? This I did write
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Old 06-09-2003, 10:54   #2
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Thanks!
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Old 06-13-2003, 16:08   #3
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I really like this trigger mod! And I currently use it on my .21 Ghengis lower (5.45x39 AK74). It fires off the steel-case Russian military ammo without a problem!!Also,doing the modification is easy and straight forward!!
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15 minute trigger-job-post-3-1055545703.gif  
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Old 07-18-2003, 20:56   #4
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Links to the original article:

http://www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Tr...Trigger_Job.htm

http://www.geocities.com/molonlaberkba/triggerjob.html

I would appreciate any reports of failure to fire any ammo with this trigger job:

(1) exactly what brand of ammo

(2) how many rounds failed to fire vs how many rounds did fire

(3) any other problems associated with the trigger job

(4) did you follow the instructions exactly, or deviate, and in what way?

Be safe and enjoy!

Thank you
A Free Man

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Old 09-27-2003, 06:51   #5
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I have seen this mod for other models as well. I don't like it because if the sear angles were not square to begin with, they will still be out after using lapping compound. I feel that stoning the trigger in a proper jig is the best way to smooth and square the trigger. I also don't like the idea of cutting and bending the springs. There are many lighter springs that are cheap and easy to install. For a down and dirty trigger job I suppose it will work, but for the money you already have invested in an AR rifle, why not do it right?
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Old 11-14-2003, 21:24   #6
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GUNDOC,is right.Do it the right way.Get lighter springs from Wolff Gunsprings or www.brownells.com Plus you can always do the plug under the grip screw trick for a 15 min job.But this changes pre-travel,not pull weight.Do both for a 30 min job.
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Old 01-14-2004, 09:58   #7
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15 second trigger job (by LTC Chuck Santose, AR15.com, as paraphrased by Moi):

After shaking well, spray Break-Free CLP into the lower, coating every moving part. Repeat as necessary.
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Old 08-07-2004, 12:30   #8
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The method described to modify the springs is precise and repeatable, by anyone. It gives the same amount of reduced tension every time. What makes you think that these modified springs are not as good as ones purchased from other sources?

I am not about to tell anyone to stone AR15 trigger/hammer sear surfaces. The hardening is very shallow and easily ground through. It is easy for someone to change angles and make an unsafe trigger.

The method described merely mates the parts in the same way as "wearing in" over a period of time. It is a lapping process that removes high spots, nothing more.

There is no reduced sear engagement such as with many competition trigger jobs.

This is simply an easy trigger tuning method that most anyone can do himself. It does what it does, and does it inexpensively ($3.00 worth of parts) and safely.

For my Ultramatch, I use the JP adjustable trigger and speed hammer.

Sniper: Someone added this line between steps 5 and 6 that were not in the original, "NOTE: I find that if you take the remaining leg of the hammer spring and "tighten" it by slightly twisting it in the direction the spring is wound will greatly improve hammer speed and strike. This insures 100% primer ignition."

You should delete those lines.

I agree with your last paragraph, about bobbing the hammer. I do this on mine for the same reason.
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Old 08-07-2004, 17:22   #9
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I agree with AFreeMan about the hammer spring. I followed the instructions, found the trigger was indeed improved...light and smooth, then took the AR15 to the range. Darn thing wouldn't fire. After replacing the modified hammer spring with a spare, it worked perfectly.
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Old 08-08-2004, 10:11   #10
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With the springs modified exactly as I originally described, I have had no problem with ignition of any ammo.

As stated above, there was a line added between steps 5 and 6 (where it says Note: ) which were added by someone else. Please ignore that.
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Old 08-11-2006, 12:31   #11
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Just did this to my CAR and A1, wow what a difference. Especially on my CAR with DPMS trigger. It was a hard gritty pull.

Is there am optimum amount of material to remove from the rear of the hammer?
IE: Will removing too much not have enough mass to detonate the primer?

How about a photo or drawing of a completed hammer.
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Old 08-24-2006, 20:01   #12
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Just tried this on my home built AR. I think that it has a DPMS LPK in it, and the trigger is pretty rough and heavy. Although this did smooth it a little it was not nearly as much as i had hoped. Especially when i compare it to my wife's AR that was built with the same kit as mine. There is very little difference other than hers feels a little more coarse. Oh well, will be getting a RRA 2 stage on the way sometime in the near future.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:21   #13
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I'm a new AR user, but have done many, many trigger modifications on various firearms. I'm surprised to see all the post about not stoning AR hammers and sears. The case harding is really that thin on AR parts? I usually anneal parts, do my mods , then re-harden with Kasinite, just depends on how much material I need to remove. Looks to me that AFreeMan's trigger mod should work great, oem trigger springs are dirt cheap. Never have been a fan of aftermarket springs, make my own or mod oem ones.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:03   #14
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Has anyone tried this on a Rock River OR is there really no need to do the job on their 2-Stage National Match triggers? I've got one coming and hope it will have a nice enough trigger-pull that it won't need any trigger job.
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Old 01-26-2008, 15:15   #15
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Redstick - You won't have to do anything to the Rock River match trigger. They are sweet right out of the box.

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Old 04-29-2008, 06:25   #16
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Pics would be nice.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:15   #17
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Wow, went from an 11lb to 6lb trigger pull. Impressive. I also did stone mine since my lapping compound was frozen. I was about to send the AR on it's way because of the trigger, I won't spend $800+ on a firearm then have to spend another $150+ on almost required mods.

This is a must do before you drop $150 on a trigger that cost $15 to make. You won't regret the time spent.
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Old 12-20-2008, 17:26   #18
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15 minute trigger job

I did the 15 minute trigger job last night and tried it out today. I don't have a trigger pull gauge but I could tell a substantial difference and my groups were much better. EM 4 Doublestar carbine w/ 16" chromelined barrel and Nikon 3x9x40 scope at just a little over 1" 5 round groups at 100 yards. All rounds fired perfectly w/ no problems what so ever. I use it for a coyote rifle and I usually call'em in fairly close and don't shoot anything more than 200 yards and most of the time much closer than that so it's pretty well set now for my needs. The trigger broke fairly clean before the trigger job but the pull was just plain heavy. Now it's much lighter and break clean as a whistle. Thank you Sniper for the link. You saved me a $120.00 that I was about to spend on a 2 stage NM trigger. I'm going to go calling in the New Mexico desert tomorrow. I'm really liking this little rifle now.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:40   #19
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Originally Posted by AFreeMan View Post

I would appreciate any reports of failure to fire any ammo with this trigger job:

(1) exactly what brand of ammo

(2) how many rounds failed to fire vs how many rounds did fire

(3) any other problems associated with the trigger job

(4) did you follow the instructions exactly, or deviate, and in what way?



I had some FTF, but it was ammo related.



First let me state (Since many of you dont know me) that Im a Journeyman Toolmaker and found this to be simple enough to perform for most anyone given they follow the directions closely. Theres really no reason for aftermarket springs, we modify springs for dies all the time and they easily last 100,000 cycles without breakage. The Case hard on these may already be partially ground through by the finishing process, this may be why they tell you not to stone them.


I ran XM193(100rds), XM855(50rds), cheap ammo(several hundred rounds), high priced ammo(not many rounds) and only found problems with Brown Bear as some of the primers were seated too deep. Out of 40rds of BB I fired 3 didnt go off first time around, but these fired off when given a second chance.


Why a deep primer would cause this I have yet to figure out, but all three had this and the ones that went bang didnt so it had to be the problem.



All in all a good mod. I went from 8lbs down to 5lbs and with a seer engagement screw (up next) this trigger would be very sweet.


.

Last edited by RaisedByWolves; 04-20-2009 at 12:43.
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Old 06-07-2009, 08:23   #20
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Sling mounts

Sorry, ams new user and this has nothing to do with trigger mod. BUT!! Does anyone know anything about the sling mounts that attach on the side of the front sight tower? I'm looking at the GG&G sling thing with quick detach and wondering about the quality and functioning? Thank You

Last edited by Congored; 06-07-2009 at 08:25.
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:15   #21
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Originally Posted by Congored View Post
Sorry, ams new user and this has nothing to do with trigger mod. BUT!! Does anyone know anything about the sling mounts that attach on the side of the front sight tower? I'm looking at the GG&G sling thing with quick detach and wondering about the quality and functioning? Thank You
I can't comment on that sling but I personnely don't suggsest pulling. tugging or hanging the rifle from the sights. It probably doesn't make much difference but if you have 2 specific use rings, why not use them?
You can buy any number of slings and make your own loops if you want.
I sell a couple of different slings. The only thing you would have to do is use some paracord
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Old 09-06-2011, 13:42   #22
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AR Trigger Job

Tried this on my M4 Bushmaster and made a tremendous difference! The only problem encountered was I had numerous FTF so I had to buy new springs and keep putting up with the heavy stock trigger until I can afford a good drop in.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:35   #23
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The 16 minute trigger job

I have not had much help building the 5 or 6 AR's I have completed just suggestions from neighbors and Vets. This is how I do my stock triggers and the pull is excellent and crisp and I have never had a failure to fire with any ammo. I hand polish the trigger mating surface to a mirror polish without changing the angles. I leave the hammer alone. I install the trigger in the normal manner but tie unwaxed dental floss to the trigger spring legs and as I install the hammer I pull the trigger spring legs up onto the hammer pin which is a anti-walk pin instead of stock. I learned this from a Vietnam Vet and until getting a computer didn't know any better. It does take three hands but cuts the pull in half removing all the slack. If you see a problem with this let me know as it has always worked for me and I have shot thousands of rounds using this method.
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Old 11-12-2012, 17:01   #24
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Thanks for the 15 minute trigger job. I first checked the sear on the hammer and noticed some marking. I put #7 rubbing compound on the sear and worked it 30 times.

After taking the hammer out and cleaning it, reassembled and tested, it did remove the marks on the hammer sear and maybe just me, but it felt smoother. I did not modify the springs. If i want to soften it up I'll buy new springs.

Thanks for the tip on the rubbing compound.

Maybe I'll try this on my Mini 14.

Larry
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Old 11-29-2012, 00:32   #25
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thanks
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