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Old 08-08-2008, 15:59   #1
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The romanian PSL designated marksman rifle

The following is a compilation of range reports I posted at another board, thought you might like to see what these rifles are capable of when fed the right ammo.
I finally got out to the range with my newly aquired TN Guns FPK/PSL.
I drove myself nuts trying to decide if I should get one of these or not, the reports from others who have this type of rifle have ranged from wonderful to absolutely awful. I set out to find an import gun that was in stock at a gunshow or dealer that I could check out personally but I never could put my hands on one.I walked into my favorite dealer about 3 months ago and there was this TN guns kit built gun on the table, just came of the BBT hadnt even been priced yet.I looked it over and thought that everything looked right so I raided my safe and sold off a couple of milsurps and a Romy G that I had built to fund the PSL.
For the past 3 months I`ve been wondering if that was a good thing to do,if this rifle was capable of no more than 4" or so at 100 yds. I would be really ticked.
I started scrounging surplus ammo where I could find and wound up with a few bundles or boxes each of Polish LPS, Hungarian light ball, Bulgarian light ball, Czech silvertip, Wolf 148 gr. bimetal and of course the obligatory 7N1.I needed to find what shot well in my rifle before I bought any ammo in bulk.
The range was Styx River Shooting Sports in Robertsdale Al. they are good friendly folks and the range has 100 and 200 yard lanes.It was 50 degrees and very windy, I almost didnt go because it was so windy but I had to find out if my new toy was worth the trades I had done.


The only modifications I made to the rifle was to remove a bit of wood in the lower handguard where it touched the barrel, other than that the rifle is bone stock,the scope is the standard Romanian LPS tip2 4X that came with the rifle (yes the same scope I tore apart trying to re-illuminate the tritium reticle-I guess I got it back together O.K.)
Zeroing the rifle was quick and easy, the reticle wound up being in the center of its field of travel once zeroed(which was nice) There were 2 FTF issues with the Polish LPS other than that the rifle functioned fine, very mild recoil-a joy to shoot.
Groups were fired at 100 yds, waiting at least one minute between shots, the bore was cleaned after each ammo type.

The Polish light ball went into about 2-2 1/2 inches I didnt photo the targets from the hungarian and bulgarian light ball but they were in the 3" range.
At this point Im feeling fairly good about the rifle but I was hoping the other ammo types would give better results.

The Czech silvertip lived up to it`s rep as a fairly accurate load,averaging out to 2" or so, I`m feeling better at this stage.

The wolf 148 bimetal really shined, all groups were under 2" and some came very close to 1" the trigger was causing me grief but I did my best to deal with it and be as steady as I could, the wind wasnt helping much but so far I was quite pleased with the rifles performance.

Ahhhh the 7N1........

The lovely 7N1......I was grinning like a possum eatin` briars at this point.

Really tried to control my breathing and wait for a lull in the wind, same chin weld, same eye position in the reticle....breathe...squeeze.....YES! sub MOA!
That was the best 100 yd group of the day and most others were hovering right around an inch it seems the 7N1 is the ticket for this little lady.
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Old 08-08-2008, 15:59   #2
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Feeling cocky I went to the 200 yd. lane for my last 5 rounds of 7N1, I clicked the elevation knob to "2" and settled in, breathe, wait for wind to die down, breathe...squeeze.....wait 2 minutes between shots, I was rewarded with this:

Thats about 3" total but 4 shots went into a little itsy bitsy cluster, damn flyer. Actually I was stunned. I`ve got to get me more 7N1 and some more Wolf as well.
Yessir I`m glad I traded! I can get another Mosin Nagant ex-sniper and a K-31 and I`ve already got 2 more G kits and receivers to replace the guns I traded.
I really really really like this rifle. I`m sure I could do a bit better with a 6x or 8X scope and a red-star trigger is definitely on the menu!
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Old 08-08-2008, 16:01   #3
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A few weeks later.....

Very nice range day, started with the test and sight in of the last of my romy G kits:http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=340560
Then on to shooting my beloved PSL. I did a little trigger work and made it slightly better, but I do think I`ll invest in one of the Jard triggers for this rifle, I do think it will benefit. Today I wanted to see if the clean cold barrel shot was significantly different in placement than the rest of the succeeding shots.

This was at 200 yds. with 7n1 ammo. The middle shot was clean and cold, the other two were fired immediately after, no wait between shots so I guess I dont have to worry about a fowling shot anymore. The first results I posted in the "wow" post were fired from sandbags, I was wondering if firing from the bipod would make a difference and I was pleased to find that it didnt.

As before the 7n1 shot MOA with a nice tight group, the wolf 148 bimetal shot fairly decent and the polish LPS... well, it went bang everytime.

I had six rounds of Czech silvertip in the ammo box so I shot them for giggles, looked through the spotting scope and saw this......HUH? thats tighter than the 7n1! that was definitely sub MOA. Tried it again with the other three and they went into about 2" at 100 yds. so this was a fluke, but it made me smile anyway. I think I`ll nab a can of the czech while it`s available, it does shoot quite well.

lastly, i wanted to try some handloads, I went out to the shed last night to cook up some nice hornady 150 grain .311 softpoints in my precious lapua cases but alas there was no case lube to be found- that sucked, it was midnight no chance on getting any before the range trip. I pulled the bullets from about 20 polish lps rounds, measured each powder charge, averaged it and trickled it back in each case so they would be the same. I seated some hornady 125 grain .310 soft points I had bought for loading 7.62x39 just to see what an accurately made round could do.

I was rewarded with 4 nice groups all just about an inch and a half at 100 yds. So it would appear that handloading can bring out some nice groups. I`ll get back to that tomorrow and see what we can do with the 150 gr. bullets and a taste of varget.
Nothing like a nice day at the range to make an old guy smile!

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Old 08-14-2008, 14:31   #4
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HOW do ya sight the scope in??? I find that it will move in "click" increments... and that I can get mine "CLOSE" to center... but then the very next "click" of the turret is too far past where I wanted it to be... With both my 8X and the 4x optics I have for these rifles.

Also.. my second PSL... a PSL-C, cannot be used with a scope... as I tried a scope on it, and it was shooting about 8 feet high at 100 yards... the siderail has GOT to be screwed on that one... it shoots decently with the irons, though...

Any suggestions?


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Old 08-14-2008, 16:54   #5
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Nice average, but (sorry to say) one group does not a MOA rifle make (and the flip side, one crappy group does not make the rifle a "stinker"). You need to look at the average size of several groups.
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Old 08-14-2008, 17:48   #6
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Indy, loosen the two screws on the windage and elevation turrets, the knobs will turn with no clicks, when you get them set to where you want, hold them still and turn the windage and elevation caps to zero and lock down the screws.
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Old 08-14-2008, 18:09   #7
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Tailgunner, if you look again at the pictures I posted you will see that with the 7N1 ammo there are 6 groups posted, most at 1" some at less and some slightly more. keep in mind the two largest groups were fired at 200 not 100 yards. If you take an educated guess at the group sizes (the squares are 1" ) you can average them up, I came up with 1.03 MOA so I guess youre right, it`s not a MOA rifle but damn near.
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Old 08-15-2008, 03:07   #8
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Bossman
Wasn't critasizing, just commenting. And for a AK based rifle, I'm impressed (remember I'm a bolt gun guy)
After you see/hear to many guys that average 2-3" groups luck into a single.999 group, start singing the prases of their personal skill (and they couldn't repeat it in another 5 years) you get a little jaded. Again, not saying this is what your doing (IOW you backed it up with more groups in the same range)
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Old 08-15-2008, 22:12   #9
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I hear ya on that tailgunner, I`ve shot 1" groups with an SKS and while that target is nice to show the other shooters on the line it cetainly doesnt make that rifle a tackdriver, the other groups shot that day were the normal 4" or so.
If we shoot 5 marbles out of a blunderbuss at 50 yards again and again sooner or later chance will chime in and we`ll get a MOA group,doesnt mean we should put a schmidt and bender tactical scope on it.
Sorry if I sounded a bit defensive but I do think that my PSL shoots quite well for a skinny barrel, sheet metal reciever, long stroke gas operated semiauto with a 4 power scope mounted off bore axis-heck it`s got every trait that should make a rifle inherantly innacurate. But for some reason it shoots quite well, I`ve often wondered why a standard ak-47 shoots so bad when it`s actually made just like the PSL, the only dimensions changed are to accommodate the longer cartridge? I`ve done lots of tinkering with handloads for the 7.62x39 and found that no matter how much care you put into the load or how many variables of bullet weight, seating depth, powder type and charge weight, primer selection or crimp an AK-47 isnt going to yield better than 3" @ 100 yds. so why does my PSL and many more I`ve read about shoot darn near 1MOA? I think the romanians had some kind of voodoo guy shaking a chickens foot over the rifles before they left the factory or something.
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Old 08-16-2008, 04:46   #10
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One thing with the AK is that it (and the SKS) tend to overstabilize their bullets (fast twist + short bullet). Back it off to 200yd and try it there. Not saying it'll be shooting MOA groups out there, but that it's not uncommon for a 6" 100yd gun to also be a 9" 300yd gun. I've tightened up a couple SKS's by switching to a .312 150gr bullet.

Another thing might be in the chamber itself, as the x39 is made to be used under all condtions by the most untrained troops, while the x54R is only used by a trained DM who would be taking better overall care of his weapon.
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Old 08-22-2008, 16:40   #11
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Well, this thread got me to thinking... And thats dangerous at best... so I took a couple PSL's to the range to see what I could try to SQUEEZE out of them with some wolf, some reloads and some Czech Silvertip out of the green box... not the blue box... dunno if that makes any difference or not... as I have two crates, each with different colored boxes...

Range 100 yards shooting a "25 yard regulation pistol target" to get the nice big black circle to aim at, as my eyes aren't the greatest... plus the paper is like 20" X 20" so I can see any flyers if they go wacky on me....

Anyways... I shot my original with an 8X posp... first shot... relaxed... off the bags... DAMN... DEAD-nuts... maybe a 1/4" high off center IN THE X RING...

I then proceeded to set the rifle down... and WAIT!!!

I shot the other, at 75 yards with irons... and a few rounds through my .50 BMG...

Then I shot again once the barrel cooled down... ZING! Another X ring hit... The x ring is about an inch across or so... When I get time I will take pics of the target...

Anyways... I put ten rounds into that target over a period of about 45 mins or so... to let the barrel COOL...

I got a ragged one hole group just a hair to the left and mostly inside the X ring, with 2 flyers about a half inch above and a half inch below the hole, which I will attribute to SHOOTER ERROR... I think with a cold bore, and the wolf ammo, this rifle would have put all 10 inside one ragged 1.5" diameter hole at 100 yards... needless to say I was VERY PLEASED!!!!

My other, with iron sights only... that didnt fare too well... getting about a 4 inch group at 75 yards, 3" high and 3" left...

Also... The .50 put all 5 within an inch of each other! LOL ... I think thats shooter error too... Even with a 2 lb trigger... I get antsy as I pull it... LOL It doesnt HURT when it goes off, but it still gives me just the EVER SO SLIGHT anxiety... I dont flinch... but I let the rifle wander that teensy bit to put it off just that tiny amount...

Anyways... back on topic... my PSL made me happy... I think it will shoot CONSISTENTLY if I do my part... it will do its part!!!


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Old 08-22-2008, 16:40   #12
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Oh.. P.S...

I never even GOT to the other ammo types... had too much fun with the wolf, and the 50! LOL

Will report on those when I do!!!


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Old 04-06-2009, 18:26   #13
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Bossman,

I have been following your write-up and I blame you for many sleepless nights. I had to give in and get one for myself.

So far I have been getting similar results using surplus corrosive ammo. It is not an M1A, but has brought back the fun in shooting.
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:38   #14
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well I dont know about rommy ak-47s but I know the centurey built aes-10b rpk is prety darn good for an AK mine does about 2moa with old norinco steel core but I have yet to put it on a rest test the actual moa.
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:34   #15
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Originally Posted by goatman556 View Post
Bossman,

I have been following your write-up and I blame you for many sleepless nights. I had to give in and get one for myself.

So far I have been getting similar results using surplus corrosive ammo. It is not an M1A, but has brought back the fun in shooting.


What is that on the bottom?




To the OP, nice shooting from a beautiful gun!

.
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Old 04-20-2009, 11:10   #16
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[QUOTE=RaisedByWolves;533270]What is that on the bottom?

Springfield Armory M1A in a Sage EBR/ Chopmod stock.
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Old 04-20-2009, 12:02   #17
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Thanks for the info, tat ting is sweet!
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