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Old 08-01-2009, 20:21   #1
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Saiga.223 converted and fitted.

Bought a .223 Saiga near where I live, last spring. Had a hard time choosing and almost got the 7.62 x 39. Dave found the box and rifle in his warehouse and I ended up with the .223 Remington Saiga. Converted the fire control group back to the place it's supposed to be, and polished mating parts( hammer and sear). Put on the Pistol Grip, fore grip, rail covers, scope mount, and collapsible butt stock. Sure Fire 30 rnd magazines, and this thing can really shoot!

Notice the 3 shot one hole group. Did this after getting the barrel broken in and I clean very well with Barnes CR-10 Copper Bore Solvent cleaner. Only thing I dislike is the dimple around the primer that come from the bolt face. It is made that way at the factory to differentiate between the exported "sporting" rifle and the military rifle.




last target:


Little closer view of the target. Nice tight group for a .223 AK huh?



Right side view. You can see the tip of the light that is on the left side rails.



BTW, I hand-load, and that 3 shot group was with Hodgdon Benchmark at 24.5 gr with a 55 gr FMJ BT Sierra GameKing bullet. Now to load up some 55 gr JHP GameKing that I got in the other day. Mr. Wylie Coyote would be best to stay away.
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Old 08-01-2009, 21:22   #2
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Nice!

Vern,

As you know, I'm a big fan of your Saiga .223 conversion.

In fact, right now, I'm using yours as inspiration for my own Saiga conversion.

Thanks again for all your insight and advice.

Lastly, great shooting!

Cheers,

alaj70
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Old 08-02-2009, 05:57   #3
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Thank you!! Appreciate the compliment.

For bigger magazines I STRONGLY suggest Sure Fire. I have both the Sure Fire and the Pro Mag, and the latter is not beefed up enough where it has the bullet guide. You can also add a bullet guide and use some other AK magazine, but I want a shooter not the end of times kind of rifle. Even then, with 2 of the 30 round magazines, one could always be able to reload (the magazine), or confiscate left over arms that are left behind by "those" that don't need it anymore. Most I shoot at any one time, may be 15 or 20 in 5 shot, slow fire groups.....and the occasional "one" for that raccoon that hung around in the tree a little too long.
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Last edited by Darth AkSarBen; 08-02-2009 at 05:58. Reason: correction in spelling.
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Old 08-09-2009, 19:11   #4
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I'm spreading the word on Saiga .223's and the possibility of good accuracy. Yesterday at the range (the one south of St. Joseph), a guy was plinking away aluminum cans at 100 yards with a 22 inch barrel .223. He did not miss the whole time I was there. He was using remington brass and said he reloaded all the cartridges himself.

That's just as good as some lower-end AR-15's.
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Old 08-09-2009, 21:00   #5
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Vern,

Quick question...can you confirm for me?

It looks like you originally went with the Tapco Saiga T6 Stock Set, before "converting" your .223 rifle.

In short, it looks like you used the same Tapco Saiga T6 stock, while moving the pistol grip forward to its originally intended position, during the conversion process.

If this is indeed what you did, what I like about this is the extended length of pull that you've (seemingly) created with the "re-use" of the Saiga T6 stock.

Can you confirm that this is the route that you (intentionally/unintentionally) took?

You see, being that I have longer arms, and I'm always looking to extend the LOP, I might go this route from the get-go.

FYI...the conversion on my rifle is going well...still waiting for some parts.

Cheers,

alaj70
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Old 08-09-2009, 22:26   #6
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Oh my, don't let this news get out to the fanboys on ar15.com
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Old 08-10-2009, 04:30   #7
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You can also add an adapter....

to shoot AR-15 mags.

AR2KS223 Saiga

Hard anodized aluminum .223 AR magazine adapter for the Saiga.

*Saiga .223 requires modification to the trunnion. Price: $159.00

(scroll down on link...)

http://magnoliastatearmory.com/produ...description%28
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Old 08-10-2009, 05:19   #8
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I used a Tapco T6 stock, yes. It was one I had on it before I converted to the Fire Control Group and moved the whole trigger group forward. Here is what it looked like before that.


The SAW pistol grip attaches to the actual stock by means of a large screw, kind of like a sheet metal screw, and that holds it in place on the stock in it's groves. However, I bought a Tapco SAW pistol grip locally that came with the correct machine screw and lock washer for use with a square headed Pistol Grip nut. That is what is on now, combined with the old stock that "had" the earlier PG on it. I have the old PG actually in drawer. They are designed just enough different that it did not look possible to use it on the new configuration. Yes, I have been told that it is a bit longer, but I too, have long arms, and the stock is 6 clicks adjustable length. At the shortest distance my wife can even hold it properly.

I don't shoot at the longest setting, but someone with longer arms than me would feel very comfortable in doing that.
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Old 08-10-2009, 18:52   #9
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Thanks!

Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen View Post
I used a Tapco T6 stock, yes. It was one I had on it before I converted to the Fire Control Group and moved the whole trigger group forward.
Vern,

Thanks!

This is good information for me to consider when ordering a Tapco T6 collapsible stock (Saiga vs. AK length).

For me, I'm always looking to increase my LOP. And, it looks like the Saiga-style T6 stock would give me some extra length to work with, once the FCG is moved forward.

Moreover, as you've described, I would be able to merely shorten the stock, to customize it for whatever length I need, at the time of shooting.

Additionally, I happen to like the additional material protruding from the end of the receiver, as it marries nicely with the lines of the rifle.

With that said, "form follows function". And, while I know there are many who like the traditional-length stock, I like to feel the rifle is an extension of my arms. And, to make that possible, the LOP has to be on the longer side of things for me.

Anyway, I'm considering a T6 stock for a future Saiga conversion project I'm planning. Hence, this information will be very helpful in making my decision.

As always, I appreciate your input.

Cheers,

alaj70
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Old 08-10-2009, 20:20   #10
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See post #1 above. That stock is completely compressed in a couple of pictures. It was shorter, hence easier, to photograph and keep it all in the pic. But with the ability to simply click and change, it's a snap. Just make sure you get the one with the accompanying pistol grip. Shame though, you won't use it when you convert, as you will use the regular SAW or other PG from Tapco. But, they only are around 18.00 or so.
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Old 08-11-2009, 18:50   #11
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Originally Posted by Darth AkSarBen View Post
See post #1 above. That stock is completely compressed in a couple of pictures. It was shorter, hence easier, to photograph and keep it all in the pic. But with the ability to simply click and change, it's a snap. Just make sure you get the one with the accompanying pistol grip. Shame though, you won't use it when you convert, as you will use the regular SAW or other PG from Tapco. But, they only are around 18.00 or so.
Thanks for the heads-up, Vern.

Actually, I'll probably forgo the Tapco grip (despite the fact that I have it on two of my T6-dressed Ruger Mini's). I like the SAW-style grip, but now that Hogue offers a USA-made (922r-compliant) grip, I'll probably use that. In fact, that's what I've ordered for my first conversion.

What I like about the notion of using the Saiga T6 stock is the extra LOP you can gain over the AK version, once the conversion is made. I see this as a "bonus" for a guy like me with longer arms.

That said, I love that you can adjust the Tapco T6 stock with minimal effort, as I've found with my Ruger Mini's dressed in the Tapco T6 furniture.

Frankly, (IMHO) I find the quality of the Tapco stocks to be underrated. In fact, the best part about the Tapco stock on my Mini's is the bent-tube configuration. It's absolutely perfect for using iron sights on the rifle.

BTW, here's a link to my Mini's:
The Trifecta...

I digress...apologies sent. (I love my Mini's!) =^)

Anyway, I'll probably use the Saiga T6 stock and add a Hogue grip to the rifle for the final configuration. And, thanks to your input, I think this will be a nice set-up for me.

Thanks!

Cheers,

alaj70
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Old 11-20-2009, 06:25   #12
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What hand guard did you use?
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:41   #13
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Originally Posted by Fancypants View Post
What hand guard did you use?
The fore grip is a Tapco Intrafuse. When you get it, there is a piece for either the .223 & 7.62 x 39 rifles and another one for the .308. I have the Intrafuse on both rifles. I actually put this one on my .308 Saiga with the front adapter, then I put a dark earth one on my .223. Kind of keeps them from being confused at a glance.

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Old 11-20-2009, 08:55   #14
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Thanks for the quick reply, how about the scope mount?

I was considering doing a conversion but was having a hard time determining what caliber to start with.

Do you have any experience with Romanian variants? I only ask because there is one I may be able to get locally for a good price. Additionally, would the tapco furniture fit any "standard" AK if there is such a thing, or are the parts you got specific to the Saiga?

Any idea if the .308 vs. .223 vs. 7.62x39 have a varying degree of accuracy?
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:09   #15
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Originally Posted by Fancypants View Post
Thanks for the quick reply, how about the scope mount?

I was considering doing a conversion but was having a hard time determining what caliber to start with.

Do you have any experience with Romanian variants? I only ask because there is one I may be able to get locally for a good price. Additionally, would the tapco furniture fit any "standard" AK if there is such a thing, or are the parts you got specific to the Saiga?

Any idea if the .308 vs. .223 vs. 7.62x39 have a varying degree of accuracy?
Scope mount came from Tuff Force, http://www.tufforce.com , a side mount. with top and side rails.

No experience with any AK-47s other than the Saiga. Most of the parts that fit Saiga (since it is simply an AK that needed re-born) will also fit other AK carbines. at www.tapco.com they have a separate listing for all the rifle variants, AK and Saiga. BTW the rear stock on the .223 (dark earth) is for an AK, not a Saiga, but they fit fine.

I don't know the accuracy of the 7.62 x 39, but I have had very good luck with the .308 and .223 for accuracy. The .308 seems to be a little more broad in what it likes to shoot over the .223.... for accuracy. That 3 bolt system on the Saiga .308 may make some difference with the accuracy, as it has been reported elsewhere on the web.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:20   #16
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Does this look like the mount you used:
http://www.tufforce.com/AK_Mounting_...ide_Mount.html

I am asking about the furniture because if I get the one available to me locally, it has all of the wood furniture, and I would like to give it a more modern look.

**Edit**

Why did you decide to go with the Saiga and do the conversion over buying something from another country with the trigger where it is supposed to go in the first place?

Last edited by Fancypants; 11-20-2009 at 10:25.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:17   #17
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Yep, that's it. I can take off the dust cover without removing the scope. But, if I want to remove it, there is just the 2 hex head machine screws that tighten it on the mount.

I went with the Saiga because it is NEW from the Izhmash factory in Russia. They fired test bullets and pack it in special anti corrosive paper, include the results of the test, include the cleaning kit, and rod and instruction manual. This one, the SAIGA is made at the same factory that ALL of the original AK-47s and AK-74s came from, and are still being produced there.

I think if you do some research the used ones from other countries had to come to this country basically in un-fireable state, meaning the receiver was cut. Then other builders here in U.S., such as Century, put in a new stamped receiver, and internal parts to "re-build" it with American made parts to be compliant. If this is not true, then I'm sure someone will be along and correct me on this.

The Saiga is so authentic that when I cut off the false floor plate that was used for the mickey mouse trigger system, all the indications were there that this was a receiver taken off the regular parts bin. In fact the BATFE had to watch a certain number of new Saiga imports as they also had the 3rd hole in the receiver where the internal works go to make the fully automatic, and as such are forbidden.

You buy a Saiga, you're getting one from the original factory made by the hands of those that have been making them for many decades. You have history in your hands. M. Kalashnikov still works at the Izhmash factory to this day.
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Last edited by Darth AkSarBen; 11-20-2009 at 11:18. Reason: spelling
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